Shelled out my bathroom by mistake

Genius

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 8:20 am

watergirl wrote:

A poor person can certainly apologize. That same poor person, who somehow found the money for not only a bungalow, but a remodel of the bathroom, can direct their remodel funds to their neighbor and make due this season with their current bathroom. Yes, I am very aware that the poor person could have inherited the bungalow or whatever, but this is all hypothetical. That poor person is still choosing to maintain a bungalow rather than sell it, and pay for utilities for two places at once and also all of the expenses that come along with owning a bungalow.

Look, if it were to happen to me I’d apologize profusely and pay for the damages. In the hypothetical situation where I’d choose to throw out 20k a year so that a group of women can look closely to see whether my shalom bayis is doing ok every Thursday evening.
But if you’re asking which kind of person, I’m sure someone who has just barely enough to pay for her own “wants” can always tell herself that it’s the worker’s fault and she’s got nothing to do with it.
This is an interesting halacha question and I’m curious to see how it will play out .

amother

Mulberry

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 8:24 am

What a wild story. Do you have to pay for the worker destroying your bathroom? No, and I would assume the neighbor is on the hook for damages. On the other hand if you were planning to remodel then you would have gained from the worker and so you probably would have to pay. But the way you describe it no, they owe you.

But if they’re asking you to pay, be ready for a din torah.

Goldie613

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 8:30 am

Don't most companies have to carry insurance to cover workers mistakes/damages? At a guess, this would count as the workers fault - and it's not like he put the new bathroom in yet, so hopefully his company can at least put your old light, toilet, etc., back in.

If they can't, it may be their headache anyway.

(All else fails, police involvement and small claims court against the workers' company?)

Good luck Hug

Ema of 5

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 8:31 am

Genius wrote:

You certainly have an interesting take on the poor. I think the real answer to that question would be “someone who has poor/bad midos.”

amother

Leaf

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 8:39 am

Genius wrote:

sorry to nitpick but maintenance when owning a bungalow absolutely does not cost 20k a year. ( and I cant imagine the rent of a bungalow costing that amount either. maybe 10-11 k for rent unless its a summer home. maintenance for a bungalow averages I imagine between 6-7k a summer)

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 8:42 am

amother [ DarkMagenta ] wrote:

Some places have rows & rows of identical units, so easy to walk into the wrong unit by mistake. It's also standard in some places to leave the units unlocked in the off season to give workers access when needed- this is when your stuff is locked up or taken back home.

Don't people put up door plates with their family names on?

ddmom

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 8:55 am

watergirl wrote:

A poor person can certainly apologize. That same poor person, who somehow found the money for not only a bungalow, but a remodel of the bathroom (rather than make due with the existing tiles, etc), can direct their remodel funds to their neighbor and make due this season with their current bathroom. Yes, I am very aware that the poor person could have inherited the bungalow or whatever, but this is all hypothetical. That poor person is still choosing to maintain a bungalow rather than sell it, and pay for utilities for two places at once and also all of the expenses that come along with owning a bungalow.

As a side point, sometimes a bathroom needs to be redone for different reasons than cosmetic ones. Maybe it's not functional, it might have leaks or mold... it's not always an option to push off the work for a year depending on what the issue is!
Not commenting on who's responsible but OP I feel so bad for you! I hope company has insurance and you end up with a nice free bathroom!!!

amother

Beige

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 8:58 am

It seems straightforward to me as the liability is that of the contractor. His workers caused damage and the contractor is the one who is fully responsible for restoring the bathroom at his expense.

The GC actually entered your premises illegally which is a criminal violation.

Halacha aside - the neighbor had nothing to do with it except very peripherally as there is no indication that the neighbor was negligent and didn't give the proper address. I am not sure there is any benefit since OP had a working bathroom prior to the gutting of it and so when it is remedied she will again have an operational bathroom - no real benefit as it is not as if she is getting two bathrooms or her bathroom didn't function.

As for procedure, you would need to contact your homeowner insurance policy and put in a claim for all of the damages since this is a coverable claim. The insurance company would then provide you with the funds for you to fix the damage and go after the insurance of the GC and possibly the insurance of your neighbor - but subrogation by insurance companies is not within your control because it is specified in your policy.

Genius

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 8:58 am

amother [ Leaf ] wrote:

Between rent, maintenance, a new country wardrobe, fast food and everything else that goes with the country, I believe 20k is average.

amother

Mulberry

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 9:04 am

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

So it goes through op’s insurance. That makes a lot of sense.

amother

Beige

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 9:08 am

amother [ Mulberry ] wrote:

So it goes through op’s insurance. That makes a lot of sense.

Yes she should contact her insurance company immediately because without a functioning bathroom she can't use the premises.

Also - it is unlikely that she will be able to find a good GC and have the repairs done so that she can use the bungalow for much of the summer.

She might also collect damages for "loss of use" of the premises because homeowner insurance policies typically cover the expense of renting while your home is being repaired. I have had several friends who homes were flooded and they had to stay at a hotel or short term rental and insurance covered the costs.

She should also institute an immediate claim against the GC who is legally responsible. She can discuss this with her insurance broker.

amother

Charcoal

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 9:08 am

amother [ Mulberry ] wrote:

So it goes through op’s insurance. That makes a lot of sense.

Would it raise OP’s insurance premiums going forward? I’m not educated on insurance at all, but I do know that car insurance premiums tend to go up if you’re in an accident, even if it wasn’t your fault.

amother

Beige

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 9:12 am

amother [ Charcoal ] wrote:

Not in this situation - car insurance is handled differently for the most part.

The advice in terms of car insurance is get a deductible high enough so that you are only covering damages that are high and not every little dent that might cost $500 to fix.

In this situation the only reasonable course of action is to contact her insurance company immediately

watergirl

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 9:14 am

Genius wrote:

Between rent, maintenance, a new country wardrobe, fast food and everything else that goes with the country, I believe 20k is average.

Add to that the extremely high price of filling your car with gas, which has never been cheap, but this year the price of gas is so much higher than ever, and for these husbands who drive back and forth every week... this will add a LOT to the summer's expenses.

amother

Oatmeal

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 9:28 am

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

I’m worried op doesn’t have insurance. And I definitely don’t think that we’re taking about a construction company with insurance.

Hope I’m wrong.

amother

Leaf

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 12:10 pm

[quote="Genius"]Between rent, maintenance, a new country wardrobe, fast food and everything else that goes with the country, I believe 20k is average quote

its either rent or maintenance. not both Wink

amother

Aster

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 12:21 pm

So sorry for all this, OP. We once had a somewhat similar situation but on a smaller scale. Our neighbor had problems with their boiler, which was up on the roof. Someone came to repair it, but it still didn't work. I got a bizarre phone call from her one rainy afternoon asking me to check if I had hot water. I told her that it was raining and I hadn't turned the boiler on, so obviously I wouldn't have hot water. She told me to check anyway, so I did. It was piping hot. Turned out that he had mistakenly replaced our boiler, which was on the adjacent roof, and then connected it to their wiring, so every time they pressed their button to turn on the boiler, we got hot water. The worker insisted that we pay him for the new boiler even though our old one had been working just fine, and IIRC we did end up paying him (perhaps we asked a shaila--I don't remember), but it was pretty frustrating to have to shell out the money for it when we felt like we had little to gain from it.