Shelled out my bathroom by mistake

amother

Valerian

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 12:25 pm

liveandlove.ima wrote:

The question really is what "benefit" means halachicaly, like is it more efficient now or just nicer. Perhaps fancy doesn't count torahdig? Just saying.

It means that you either have pleasure or practical use from it.

Realizing now that if they just shelled it out without actually putting in anything new, you can likely say that there is no benefit only damage and charge what it would cost to replace.

seeker

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 12:31 pm

ddmom wrote:

As a side point, sometimes a bathroom needs to be redone for different reasons than cosmetic ones. Maybe it's not functional, it might have leaks or mold... it's not always an option to push off the work for a year depending on what the issue is!
Not commenting on who's responsible but OP I feel so bad for you! I hope company has insurance and you end up with a nice free bathroom!!!

Still, if it's your fault that the neighbor is bathroomless, then YOU stay home that summer if that's what it takes to make sure the neighbor gets fixed. Save up anew and/or sue the contractor to afford your own essential bathroom repair. You don't leave the neighbor WITHOUT A BATHROOM just because you "needed" your repair now and can't pay for both.

amother

Valerian

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 12:35 pm

BadTichelDay wrote:

In my imagination, this opens the door to a host of nightmare scenarios. For an example, the paint of our house is peeling slightly. We don't mind. What if one day some bored painter comes by and repaints the whole thing on his own and then demands money? What if someone who owns a chainsaw decides spontaneusly that our trees need cutting? What if someone decides we need a second deck or a balcony and he builds it while we are away for the weekend? What if someone walking past decides that our car needs new tires or a roof rack?
Would I have to pay for them all??? Surprised

If I remember correctly, if he has done this more than three times, he is considered unethical and no one needs to pay him from there on.

For those 3 times it still doesn't pay because you only need to pay for the benefit not for his quote. so eg. if he installed new windows, you don't have to pay for what he chose but for the benefit cost of having new windows versus old ones. It's a complicated cheshbon based on house value + actual benefit (lower heating bills etc).

So in OPs case, if they had actually replaced the bathroom, it would be the rise in value of the bungalow + actual benefit of eg.no plumbing issues. If they just shelled and she was going to shell anyway, it would be the cost of the shelling on her quote not theirs. If they shelled and she didn't want it shelled, I assume she can claim damage not benefit. It's an interesting complicated shaala.

Sprinkles1

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 2:12 pm

I dont get why OP should at all be responsible for this.

This is totally between the neighbor and the worker, and they should work/fight it out between themselves.
If the neighbor clearly stated the bungalow number, and the worker went to a different number, then worker is totally responsible.
If the neighbor wasn't so clear, then the worker could have a tayna.

If OP wants to be nice, she could offer to pay part of it.

mizle10

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 6:25 pm

Genius wrote:

Between rent, maintenance, a new country wardrobe, fast food and everything else that goes with the country, I believe 20k is average.

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from.

I personally pay $1500/year for maintenance/pool fees. No rent, we own the bungalow. Taxes are about $700/year. We don't buy a special country wardrobe and there's no takeout available near me.

amother

DarkMagenta

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 6:55 pm

mizle10 wrote:

Obviously this includes rent. Driving out weekly etc also gets added. Stuff gets ruined like crazy- like kids bikes & toys, stroller, shoes clothing

amother

Dodgerblue

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 7:02 pm

mizle10 wrote:

My neighbor rents a bungalow for 1 month at a cost of $11,000

amother

Blush

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 7:20 pm

I asked my husband who is a rav and has to deal with many cases like this.
Disclaimer: This was his thought based on quickly thinking about the case and probably not having all details.

He basically said the contractor would only have to pay for damages and to put the bathroom back into the condition it was in before being shelled. For example, OP is not entitled to a brand new vanity to replace the old one. So if the old was say 10 years old, and valued at $20 now, that is what she'd be entitled to. Same with other fixtures and tiles. He did not feel she is entitled to a brand new bathroom.

Again, see the disclaimer because there are obviously a lot of details here!

amother

Violet

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 7:53 pm

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

I figured that might come up, but practically speaking, it's very problematic. The fact that OP's vanity is now maybe worth $20, she'd be very hard pressed to even find a replacement that's so low priced (aside from obviously not wanting to replace with something so old or poor quality). Meaning the resale value is way lower than the value it has to her as being a fully functional piece of presumed decent quality.

nicole81

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 8:13 pm

moonstone wrote:

"Shelled out?" I've heard of shelling out money, but not a bathroom. Is that a NY word for remodeling?

I've been in NYC my whole life. We call this a gut job, ie the bathroom was gutted.

I'm not sure why so many people are presuming benefit here; the only way OP benefits from a "bathroom" with beams, studs, and perhaps a subfloor, is if she was planning on a full renovation prior to the summer.

NewMonseyMom

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 8:36 pm

From a civil law perspective the contractor made a mistake.

One possible solution to be aware of, is that the actual effort and cost to shell a bathroom and rebuild it is far, far lower that contractors usually charge. The contracting company could completely redo the work, in the intended bungalow, and _still_make a very healthy profit.

The actual workers make less than $20/hour. Ripping everything out takes less than 5 hours. Adding drywall to a bathroom, even the special waterproof type, is straightforward, just another few hours of work. Installing fixtures is also trivial to people with mechanical and electric skills.

The contractor should make good on their commitment -- have they said "no" to what would be a reasonable request?

The contractor can reinstall original fixtures fairly easily, and the new drywall, floor and tub (if that was part of the job) will become a sunk cost. Don't feel bad for the contractor, he'll come out ok. Guaranteed.

amother

Beige

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 8:40 pm

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

This isn’t how it is generally applied because you can’t find used sinks or toilets. You are entitled to a functioning bathroom.

It means that it is replaced with equivalent quality so if it is ceramic tile you don’t get marble.

Also the reality is that the cost of remodeling a bathroom is mostly labor as you need skilled labor for plumbing and electrical work. You can get relatively inexpensive vanities, toilets and bathtubs especially if you are doing a bungalow since most people just want functional and not elegant as they would in the primary residence.

Also people should check their insurance policies and make sure you have replacement value for losses. If something happens, you want to be able to get the amount necessary to have a functional kitchen or bathroom. I just renewed and if you have especially nice stuff you should make sure you are insured for that so the insurance company won’t give you inadequate reimbursement to repair to the actual level. For example if you have marble or quartz then you don’t want to be reimbursed for the cost of Formica.