Devastating Irreversible Abusive Treatments

amother

Charcoal

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 3:27 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Wrong. Mental health and physician associations forbid therapy other than gender affirming in 24 states.

Colorado. (law is about minors)

(5.5) (a) "CONVERSION THERAPY" MEANS ANY PRACTICE OR
TREATMENT BY A LICENSED PHYSICIAN SPECIALIZING IN THE PRACTICE OF
PSYCHIATRY THAT ATTEMPTS OR PURPORTS TO CHANGE AN INDIVIDUAL'S
s-xual ORIENTATION OR GENDER IDENTITY, INCLUDING EFFORTS TO
CHANGE BEHAVIORS OR GENDER EXPRESSIONS OR TO ELIMINATE OR REDUCE
s-xual OR ROMANTIC ATTRACTION OR FEELINGS TOWARD INDIVIDUALS OF
THE SAME relations.

(b) "CONVERSION THERAPY" DOES NOT INCLUDE PRACTICES OR
TREATMENTS THAT PROVIDE:

(I) ACCEPTANCE, SUPPORT, AND UNDERSTANDING FOR THE
FACILITATION OF AN INDIVIDUAL'S COPING, SOCIAL SUPPORT, AND IDENTITY
EXPLORATION AND DEVELOPMENT, INCLUDING s-xual
ORIENTATION-NEUTRAL INTERVENTIONS TO PREVENT OR ADDRESS
UNLAWFUL CONDUCT OR UNSAFE s-xual PRACTICES, AS LONG AS THE
COUNSELING DOES NOT SEEK TO CHANGE s-xual ORIENTATION OR GENDER
IDENTITY; OR

(II) ASSISTANCE TO A PERSON UNDERGOING GENDER TRANSITION

amother

Caramel

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 3:28 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Well, every decent parent researches to find a therapist who can support their child without pushing in either direction. Therapists aren’t stupid, they know how to work around it. And it’s never the job of the therapist to “convince” a kid in any issue. therapy is not about pushing an agenda, rather it’s teaching a person to discover for themselves their own values and self- beliefs.

In my field, we used to challenge atypical beliefs that had no basis in reality. We don’t support the man who thinks he’s napoleon or Superman. In fact, we used to be taught that it’s dangerous to entertain it, it could cause the patient to experience delusions and jump off a roof to fly, for example. The point was to carefully acclimate the client to his own reality using serial gentle challenges. And also medication.

If a teenager says that everyone hates him and he is unlikeable, we may parrot it back to show we have heard his feelings and we validate their existence. But we challenge whether those perceptions are accurate, and help him rediscover reality and self acceptance.

Therapists are now instructed to affirm. That’s a radical change.

amother

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 3:29 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Ideally this is the case. Unfortunately too often it is not.

amother

Jade

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 3:32 pm

amother [ Caramel ] wrote:

But considering the tendencies for perseveration in those on the spectrum, and the difficulty in changing those perseverative habits without intense intervention, don’t you worry that this strategy, while helpful for neurotypical kids, will backfire on yours?

I get that this is the only strategy your professional team has been able to come up with, but it doesn’t mean it’s the one best for your child. It might be the one best for the current societal culture, which as we know is often at odds for what our kids really need.

My neurodivergent child wanted to wear a dress in public. I said no, constantly. Neutral affect, no emotional input into the choice. Over time, the desire faded and he’s now a boy with a healthy desire for girls and also wears appropriate attire. I also controlled his surroundings and put him in schools that, while they weren’t on our religious wavelength, was therapeutically appropriate and kept him away from public school. The environment is key, which is why we keep harping on liberal propaganda. To see that it doesn’t happen in a vacuum.

Caramel, how old was your child when he wanted to wear a dress? My kid is 16. I also said no for a long time.

I worry all the time about her future. but she has gotten so obsessive over the issue, that to me the only way around it is through it. She is also in a religious but therapeutic environment.

Bottom line, there’s no way for sure knowing which pathway would provide the best outcome for her. I’ve spoken first- hand to mothers of other trans kids, some neuro typical, some not. I’ve heard mixed stories. All of them concurred that supporting your child is best for their mental health. Knowing my child, I think it’s an explorative phase but there’s really no knowing 100%.

All I can do right now is consult with her team( we are working with a psychiatrist, a behaviorist, and a therapist), daven, rely on statistical evidence, and hope for the best.

amother

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 3:37 pm

giftedmom wrote:

I think the whole obsession with trans ironically points to an obsession with the gender binary, with placing kids into boxes.
Girls can wear blue and play with cars without being labeled boys. Boys can play with dolls and enjoy sparkly things without transitioning into girls. Let children be. Let them play with whatever toys they like, wear whatever colors they like, without trying to alter their bodies for life.

Cant like this post enough

Men can be more feminine than average
Women can be more masculine than average

So what?

I once saw a video of a frum man who decorates tablescapes.

The Torah would have nothing against this traditionally feminine form of parnassa. Assuming of course that he dresses like a man, davens, puts on tefillin, etc.

Same with a woman. There is no halacha that she has to love makeup, jewelry, shmoozing, cooking, or any other steryotypically feminine thing.

I let my son play with dolls and kitchen toys etc. It is fantastic for imaginative play skills, social skills, cognitive and language development. I likewise see my daughter choose to play with trucks and think it is wonderful for the same reason.

Ironic that the lgbtq are the ones with the rigid roles.

amother

Ivory

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 3:40 pm

giftedmom wrote:

Exactly. It’s so confusing to me that the same people who pushed for more acceptance and not putting people in boxes now push for the tiniest box. What does being the other gender even mean especially when so many don’t physically change their bodies. Why can’t they just do what the other gender does without altering anything. So be a feminine man that wears skirts and gets paid less than men etc…

skyeblue

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 3:48 pm

BrisketBoss wrote:

Well pedophilia is not synonymous with s-xual crimes. It can lead to them. I respect the pedoph1les who successfully manage their urges and do not commit crimes. Being attracted to children was not a choice they made, and they would change it if they could.

Yes, the technical definition of pedophilia is attraction to children, not abuse. And I did not, nor do I wish to, read the actual article. But the word pedophilia IS commonly used to refer to the actual crime as well. And it definitely sounds like they are attempting to whitewash and normalize pedophilia (the crime), especially if you observe society's other signs of movement toward it as well.

skyeblue

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 4:06 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Says who?

The same "authorities" who say a boy can be a girl?

The same "authorities" who say mutilating and permanently making infertile children is good?

Stop believing the BS that conversion therapy is harmful and doesn't work. And all the other BS.

That's how these evil authorities come to power.

And what right does GOVERNMENT have from FORBIDDING ADULTS from choosing conversion therapy? What happened to "my body, my choice"?

This
Exactly

ora_43

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 5:22 pm

There's society, and there's the individual.

I have nothing against individual parents and therapists showing acceptance toward kids who say they are nonbinary or trans. On the contrary. It's the only approach you can take, really. (assuming an older child, not, say, a 5-year-old who said "I'm a dog" yesterday and is saying "I'm a girl" today)

What I'm worried about is the societal level. IE, the fact that confused or lonely young kids are being told (everywhere from social media to kids cartoons) that your gender is whatever you feel like it is, and if you don't feel like you fit in, maybe it's because you have a special gender identity that will give you instant access to a supportive new community.

I don't think kids are declaring themselves nonbinary just to fit in. I think their identity crisis is real. But I also think they'd benefit from messaging that's more connected to reality (biological, social, historical) and that doesn't push identifying your true inner gender/s-xuality as the be-all-end-all. And I think the mixing together of gender identity, s-xuality, and politics (on both sides of the aisle) is toxic.

The fact that being straight and white is tragically uncool doesn't help, either.

amother

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 5:56 pm

ora_43 wrote:

This is why you have cis white straight girls who id as "queer" though nothing about them suggests it. They date men, act like women etc. It is just a status. Virtue signalling.

skyeblue

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:23 pm

amother [ Charcoal ] wrote:

Back to libertarianism.

You seem to imagine that conversion therapy is torturous or painful. While such methods may have been used, BestBubby is talking about more benign methods, such as counseling, for example. Why is counseling conversion therapy banned?

Check out this Wikipedia page on diversion therapy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik.....erapy
The slant is unbelievable. ( I wouldn't even call it a slant; it's straight out delusion.) But even they admit that conversion therapy includes regular, as well as more drastic, methods. They're against it not because it's violent. They're against it because they want to force people into their understanding of s-xuality.

amother

Caramel

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:45 pm

skyeblue wrote:

Dr. Gerald Davidson was one of the pioneers of conversion therapy. He was a brilliant psychologist and researcher, and is listed on hundreds of publications on the subject.

He himself changed his mind in the 70’s and made an about face, dismissing his own theories as inherently flawed and publicly denouncing his own decade of work. That’s some powerful refutation of the methodology right there. It’s actually quite scary, and one of the reasons most therapists have abandoned any attempt at revitalizing the conversion therapy movement.

amother

Charcoal

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 7:40 pm

skyeblue wrote:

I looked into this - first seems that conversion therapy is banned for 18 and under in the states the ban it - so BB should feel relived as she was concerned about adults making choices for themselves.

I'm not a therapist. If there counseling options (lets call it talk therapy) that turn gay people straight - I'm interested in learning about it. I tend agree that if the therapy is not harmful - its fine... and if if people are looking for effective safe treatments to go from gay to straight - those should be available....

BrisketBoss

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 10:22 pm

skyeblue wrote:

Pikuach nefesh?
Bet you wouldn't use this argument if a "narc" mother made the suicide attempt. Can't Believe It

Like I said, it was a silly argument. Letting a child live as they wish with no harm to others or to their own body is way too much to ask. Better to let them kill themselves. They are just manipulating you with their trendy teen ways after all.