S/O OTD we can fix chinuch!

amother

Bisque

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 9:43 am

These are things we as individuals can do:

Thank the Hanhala for doing things outside the box and not necessarily academic.

Send our kids happily to schools that are a bit below what we would want.

Teach our children the value of inclusivity

Thisisnotmyreal

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 9:54 am

amother Whitewash wrote:

I mean, that's just one opinion. I don't think it's a universally held belief.

t

True, I don't think there's any opposing opinions though. Who else talks about it? It's very important to know what Geula looks like. So if there's opposing opinions, I'd like to know. N

To me, this seems to just make Geula so much easier for most people to yearn for. They know that 'ולא יהא עסק כל העולם אלא לדעת את ה
Doesn't mean they'll be busy in a book all day. How many people that can't sit and learn all day are thinking "gee, that sounds like a nightmare"?

We will see holiness, there won't need to be books and books describing it.

Thisisnotmyreal

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 10:03 am

amother Honeydew wrote:

Can you give examples of things he says? How to make it practical. I have a hard time paying attention when he talks- my problem, not his.

How he has two children race against each other one blowing up a balloon, one talking to see who would get exhausted first. To demonstrate how Hashem invested Himself into our neshamos blown into us.

I think he brought two more examples for adults. He talks about elsewhere that no one will be convinced about what you are saying just because it's the objective truth but because they trust you/like you. Stressing the relationship with teachers and students.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 10:21 am

We're all seeing the problems in the Chinuch system through our own lens, if your kids went to a yeshiva or school that the teachers were trained well and didn't have to yell, did hands on activities to explore topics, used project based learning concepts throughout the year, then you are not going to see the same problems as someone whose kids sat and listened to a teacher talk and repeating pessukim back to them for 6 hours a day.

I happen to think most schools are shifting towards a student centered model. I work in the Chinuch system (don't want to give details because my position is unique and I don't need people knowing I'm here) and I've been in and worked with schools all over the spectrum of the frum system and I've only seen 2 that really have no interest in progressing and following the frontal teaching model exclusively. That's out of 30+ schools.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 10:23 am

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

Teachers do these things in class! I promise, there are so many Morahs and Rebbeim who spend hours thinking of the must creative ways to get their students to internalize the topic they are teaching.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 11:19 am

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

Already happening. How will this replace a chumash gemara shulchan aruch and tanya?

amother

Denim

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 11:23 am

amother Seashell wrote:

The only challenge is the amount of ground a teacher is expected to cover. And the pacing that is expected as well.

Thisisnotmyreal

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 12:09 pm

amother Honeydew wrote:

Already happening. How will this replace a chumash gemara shulchan aruch and tanya?

Avraham didn't need those seforim, he learned these things from the world. We'd get there eventually. I'm imagining kids learning outside seeing the cat and then pulling out a sefer/kindle? to learn hilchos Tznius from the text and then going further.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 12:13 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

I disagree with this, we can't do away with seforim because Avraham Avinu didn't need them. We do need to use the world to understand what's in the seforim.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 12:19 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

Do you prefer to do away with schools altogether?
Teachers are there from 9-4 every day in the same room as 20 children.
What would you prefer to happen during those hours different than what happens now?

Thisisnotmyreal

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 12:42 pm

amother Seashell wrote:

I disagree with this, we can't do away with seforim because Avraham Avinu didn't need them. We do need to use the world to understand what's in the seforim.

I never said get rid of seforim. I said we can start mimicking the education style of Geula that won't even have books.

Thisisnotmyreal

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 12:44 pm

amother Honeydew wrote:

Somewhere in the middle between camp and school.

Goody2shoes

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 12:53 pm

What makes it so complicated is that no two children are the same. Meaning, I can be setting up a whole education system which would work perfectly for my child/, while when Mother B hears of it she would never live it down simply because its the opposite of what her child needs.
So maybe yes, schools are trying to work with students to make it a better place, in reality its almost impossible for everyone to be happy. I guess that's where we as parents have to pick up the slack.

Goody2shoes

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 12:58 pm

amother Honeydew wrote:

Oy I'm sorry to hear this. I understand. My almost 16 year old has no zitsfleish but he is a good boy and an excellent learner as long as his attention span lasts. So far his yeshiva has been flexible with him. My older boys tell me that starting next year when there is more chavrusa time and less frontal-style shiurim, it is easier on the boys who have a hard time sitting.
This year a chabad mesivta opened for the first time for a boy like your brother. If you are open to it I can send you the information.
(By the way, sitting for an hour is pretty good! My son can't do that.)

Yes please! I would love to hear the details of such a yeshiva. and I'm assuming my parents would be grateful for any new leads that come their way.

amother

Whitewash

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 1:00 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

There are absolutely opposing opinions on this. Many Rabbanim have spoken about the what life will be like. The Rambam held that the nature of the world will not change when Moshiach come, and that a lot of things written about that time are just speaking metaphorically. So no, it not a universal or even a widespread belief outside of Chabad.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 1:00 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

I never said get rid of seforim. I said we can start mimicking the education style of Geula that won't even have books.

Ok. It did sound to me like you said no sefarim. I mean some hundreds of years ago they did not have sefarim to learn from but I didn't think you were promoting the idea to memorize the entire Torah instead.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 1:12 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

Somewhere in the middle between camp and school.

Ok this is a lot more down to earth. I agree that both camp and school need improvements and merging the two for children to attend 12 months/year sounds terrific.

Thisisnotmyreal

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 1:14 pm

amother Whitewash wrote:

There are absolutely opposing opinions on this.

Bring it to me.

I know good and well Rambam hilchos melachim. I would see it more of a change in life as we know it that people will suddenly be able to sit round the clock in order to get to know Hashem than a more somatic experience of yiddishkeit where I learn about Hashem while eating my meal, while taking nature walks and while grocery shopping.

amother

Brunette

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 1:44 pm

Way less sitting. Many adults now that are done school and collage would have even issues sitting through a lesson out second graders sit though today. More interactive lessons, more movement, less "speeches" Also I don't want it to personalize. I would be worried that teachers and rebbeim would take it too far being on top of my child's case. But standards in certain areas should be lowered. In the average high school class a small percentage can spitback the information for the test. The rest work really hard to remember all the information and half of it gets forgotten right after the test. Lessons should be taught in a way to make them memorable. Not a competition how much material could be covered that year