With respect, I'm confused

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Forum -> Pregnancy & Childbirth -> Baby Names

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amother

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 9:34 am

I'm confused about a number of naming threads recently.

When we had a boy on the shloshim for my grandmother, we called him Menachem not a male variant of her name.

When we couldn't call a name because of another relative with the same name, we were upset but we moved on.

Is there any inyan in calling after someone if the name has been changed out of all recognition?

If I call Naomi instead of Naftali because they start with the same letter, is there any point?
If I call Noam instead of Naomi because they sound similar and have a similar meaning, is there any point?
Even to call a Hebrew equivalent of a Yidish name, is there any point? (Yaffa for Shaina, Ayala for Hinda etc)

I'm asking this not at all as criticism because I understand that sometimes there is an emotional connection but I'm really curious to know if there is an inyan to do that? It's really relevant to me personally (expecting a boy and have a grandmother to call after)

Please keep this thread respectful and not critical of other people's choices.

amother

Seafoam

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 9:40 am

A family member had a son but wanted to name after a grandmother. Their Rov said they could name Chaim for Chaya and it would be a if named after the relative. However, if they would later have a girl they would not be allowed to name Chaya because in this case Chaim was named for Chaya.

amother

Chambray

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 9:50 am

I wouldnt name a girl after a boy but thats just me
to me naming after someone is using the name that they had

amother

Firebrick

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 10:04 am

You really can’t understand why someone would do this? If you had a dear grandmother who you loved named Naomi and you named your son Noam and every time you called him that you thought of your grandmother and how much you loved her,and how her legacy is being passed down through her descendant whom you gave birth to, is that not significant enough?

Even if there’s no Halachic basis, can you see the emotional one?

baked ziti

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 10:07 am

I've never even heard of this concept. Like chambray said, to me naming after someone means giving the actual name. As for the emotional aspect, Im still not seeing it. Maybe it's just me but it would feel like a parody of the name and not sit well with me.

Last edited by baked ziti on Tue, Aug 01 2023, 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 10:08 am

I mentioned I can see an emotional reason in my original post.

What I'm confused about is that we know that when a child is called after someone there is a connection that passes on. It's a question whether that is a zchus for the niftar or a zchus for the child. But if it isn't the same name or even the same gender, how is the legacy being passed on more through this child than through a child with a completely different name?

BetsyTacy

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 10:11 am

Different rabbis feel differently about this.

Also, if a child knows s/he is named after a specific person, even without carrying the exact name, that is a special connection to that ancestor that would not have been there. It hopefully leads to learning more about that person, which perpetuates his/her legacy.

Leahh

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 10:13 am

I don't think its so much as naming after the person in the way you're thinking about it but more as an emotional gesture.

amother

Ultramarine

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 10:16 am

OP I think it is more dealing with the emotional side of things when we name a name that is different than the actual name. it's a way to remember the person who passed, to send down the generations about a special (great, great) grandparent and keep the name in the family for future generations.

amother

Lightpink

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 10:52 am

There is definitely an inyan to name after someone. In ways we can’t really understand there’s some sort of spiritual benefit to the person who already passed away and also to the baby getting the name. If it’s important to you, you should discuss it with your lor. You can ask about giving a boy the name of a female relative and find out whether that’s a valid way to name after someone.
Giving a name with similar letters, like giving the baby a name that starts with the same letter as a grandparent’s name, seems to give some mothers an emotional good feeling. I think the idea comes more from secular culture. As far as giving the neshama or the new baby any spiritual benefits, that’s not really the way it works.

amother

Dahlia

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 11:06 am

My rav holds that actually naming after someone (whatever that means spiritually) is using the exact name. We had a shaila when I felt pressure to name after a relative who was not shomer shabbos, which I was not so interested in. He told us to add a name so it makes people happy, but it’s not really considered naming after.

He said you can use a name that is a zecher for a person, but it’s not directly naming after (still not sure what that means). We did end up naming a daughter Tziporah as a zecher for my grandfather named Moshe. It’s something in his memory, but it’s not officially “naming for him.”

Highstrung

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 11:09 am

amother Seafoam wrote:

This is fascinating to me , because my non frum Uncle named his daughter after my grandfather . Her name is Shira and my grandfather was Asher . I always assumed it was a non frum thing to do. But I learned something new today .

amother

Snowdrop

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 11:11 am

R' Shmuel told us that the Hebrew equivalent is just as good as the Yiddish one we didn't use.

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 11:24 am

amother OP wrote:

I agree that just using the first letter serves no point (unless it's kubbid av v'aim and it would make your parents happy.)

But regarding naming a translation: someone I know well had a girl, who they wanted to name after a deceased grandmother. The grandmother was a yekkish Jew. They had a picture of her grave. It said Edel. They didn't know if the name was Ettel or Aidel.

So they sent the question to a choshuv Rav who hailed from the same location as this grandmother.
His response was, "the name is Aidel and you can name her Adina. "

In the end, they named the child Aidel. But this was a clear psak that one may use a translation.

I have a grandmother who was named Faiga. My husband and I only like to use names from the Torah and definitly no Yiddish names If I have a girl, I would name her Tzippora. In all probability, faiga was translated from TzIpora.

amother

Daffodil

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 11:32 am

amother OP wrote:

I think you answered your own question - therefore not sure why you are confused...

amother

Forestgreen

Wed, Aug 02 2023, 10:09 am

I was never very into naming after relatives unless it was specifically a name the parents liked, but when a relative made a family tree going back a few generations and we saw the same names over and over it was very special.

essie14

Wed, Aug 02 2023, 10:48 am

In my family, anything goes.
We name males after females with similar names, and vice versa.
We Hebraicize Yiddish names.
We will name a child with a middah of the person to remember the relative.

And my family members range the gamut from chassidish to yeshivish to MO/DL.

amother

NeonGreen

Wed, Aug 02 2023, 11:08 am

So I hear naming something similar for the other gender then the person was. But I don’t understand giving an ugly not fitting or normal name in order to make it work. Think of the embarrassment of your child down the road! Some of the names suggested or wanting to be given is far from the normal or non existent names

amother

Peru

Wed, Aug 02 2023, 11:09 am

I think it came from wanting to name for people after the holocaust but not having the right genders.

Coincidentally both my father and father in law are both named Gedalyah after a Gittel.

amother

Snowflake

Wed, Aug 02 2023, 11:24 am

It may not count "officially" but yes, the emotional connection is important and it's not like it's wrong to do it. My oldest son is named for a relative of my husband's, but it so happens that his name sound similar to my grandmother's English name (for example, Marcia and his name is Moshe). My grandmother wasn't frum and went by her English name. Her Jewish name was very Yiddish and she hated it and always said she anyway didn't want anyone to name after her Jewish name unless they did a Hebrew version. Anyway, "Moshe" was was named for an actual Moshe, but in my mom's head, he's also named for her mother "Marcia" and you know what, I am happy to let her think that. It makes her happy to think that and she feels that connection, why would I want to correct her on that? And when I eventually had a daughter and named her "Malka" instead of "Mushka", this time actually for my grandmother, my mom was thrilled with that too. She thinks she has 2 grandchildren named for her mother and that makes her happy. It costs nothing to let her be happy about that.

I will add that sometimes the circumstances are such that, for whatever reasons, you know this is your only chance to name after a beloved relative and you can't use the actual name either because wrong gender, or it's your living MIL'S name or what have you. But you still want to do something to connect to that person. Again, it may not officially count, but it's still meaningful. Did that with another son, actually.

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