Hype About Potching

amother

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:13 pm

I want to start off by saying, before I get attacked, that this is more of a theoretical question than a practical one for me.
My children are little and b"H very well behaved, so this is not about how I am disciplining them in the moment.
I just want to open a thread, because the ones I've read on the topic were highly toxic and emotional, to logically discuss potching. So many people say "hitting your kids is abuse. Full stop." without giving any kind of explanation. And sorry, my highly intellectual, logical brain doesn't buy that. Something doesn't just become abuse just because you said it is.
I agree that there are probably better methods out there, but I want to know where all the vitriol against something that I'm fairly certain most of us grew up with is coming from.
Again, asking from a place of intellectual curiosity. I want a good, old-fashioned debate. If you're planning to share emotion outrage, don't do it here.
(By the way, I agree that if you were abused as a child, potching would be triggering for you, and I totally respect that you think it's wrong for you. But that doesn't make all potching wrong.)
Looking forward to your responses!

Giraffe

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:16 pm

Hit very badly for something I never did along with a silent treatment. My brother framed me.

Hit for every little mistake.

I confused the word "thirsty" for tired" and tried to communicate I was thirsty but my mother was angry at me for being "tired." I did not drink.

Please tell me I am supposed to not find little things "such a big deal" if literally everything can lead to my parents enraged at me?

I basically learned "might is right" and then hit my younger sister very badly when she annoyed me. I learned the wrong lessons.

amother

Viola

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:20 pm

I think that a light tap on the hand is fine when needed, but as a last resort & not as a regular thing. And should never come out of anger. But a slap across the face or a spanking on the bottom, that is never acceptable. That's just painful & it's generally out of anger.

amother

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:22 pm

I think that a light tap on the hand is fine when needed, but as a last resort & not as a regular thing. [/quote]
And yet there seem to be many woman on this forum who will jump on you for saying this. So that's my question. Why do people get so emotionally worked up about this without providing empirical evidence one way or the other?

amother

Jade

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:23 pm

Please do your kids a favor and read ANY parenting book written after Dr Spock and get a mehalech on good chinuch.
Your comment that your kids are young and “well behaved” scares me- what happens when they do anything that normal kids might do? Like take things out of a cabinet?

BrooklynBee

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:23 pm

Hitting a child is very counterproductive. Parenting is modeling. When our children see how we react when they make us upset/angry/scared by hitting, they learn that the way we deal with our big emotions is by using our hands. If we instead model how to calm ourselves down and then deal with the situation appropriately we are giving our children life skills. Research shows that parents who hit their kids have aggressive children (or aggressive children have parents who hit them, not 100% sure, but the point is the same.)
Hitting is not usually abuse- unless you hit on the face, with a belt, or any way that can hurt or bruise the child it's not abuse, it is just not helpful parenting.

listenhere

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:24 pm

Here are the issues as I see them:

1- I think this is the main one - it’s a door that if it’s open, there is the opportunity to hit kids out of anger. When you’re extremely upset and this door is open, it’s very easy to convince yourself that it’s for their chinuch when in fact you are acting out of anger. Most people will then justify it, hence the emotion you’ll see when discussing the topic. It’s way too easy to lose control and step into abusive territory.
2- Realistically, it’s usually an attempt of the parent to get control where they feel like they’re losing it. Kids pick up on it and learn this unhealthy behavior.
3- It just doesn’t work. There are better and healthier ways to discipline. They might not be as easy, but definitely worth learning about.
4- There are kids that feel extremely violated by even the slightest form of inappropriate touch. There isn’t really a way for you to know in advance exactly how it will affect your kid.

amother

Oatmeal

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:25 pm

BrooklynBee wrote:

Whys the face different?
I needed trauma therapy for being hit, and I wasn't hit enough to be bruised

scintilla

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:29 pm

I just don't understand how it's supposed to be educational. We don't want our kids to hit, so why would we hit them? There are several lessons I think a kid can take from being hit, none of which I want them to learn:
- hitting is how we teach
- if someone does something we don't like we hit them
- violence is an appropriate response to something wrong or someone doing something I dislike
- it's ok if people I love hurt me/it's ok to hurt others if there's a good enough reason

Just think about how those potential messages can translate into adult relationships such as spouse and parent/child.

Also, I think everyone who does hit agrees that in order for it to be an appropriate chinuch approach it needs to be done when the parent is calm. If you're so calm and regulated, there are literally thousands of better parenting approaches to take that model behaviors we want our children to emulate.

Remember, our children learn more from what we do than what we say.

Those are just a few of my thoughts on the matter. And I wasn't hit as a child so I am not triggered, even though if you want to exclude anyone who was hit from the discussion that's excluding a large chunk of the population including those who have done a lot of research and thought into this since it did affect them deeply.

Finally, yes it's intentional that I'm calling it hitting and not patching/potching. Calling it a Yiddish word, I feel, covers up what it is: hitting your child. Maybe you think it's justified and I'm not here to judge you but let's call a spade a spade.

BrooklynBee

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:30 pm

amother Oatmeal wrote:

Whys the face different?
I needed trauma therapy for being hit, and I wasn't hit enough to be bruised

The face is more dangerous I think (something I came across in a mandated reporter class)
In your case I would assume the hitting was very frequent or came along with other traumatic things, but basic hitting once in a while isn't necessarily abuse, of course each situation is unique.
I don't want to downplay your specific situation, but it's possible that someone would be traumatized by a non-abusive situation, one does not necessarily cause the other, even though they commonly do.
One article that I came across, there are many many more.
https://psychnews.psychiatryon......5.13

amother

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:30 pm

And here comes the hysteria. Someone who's genuinely afraid of what might happen if my kids start misbehaving. Without knowing anything about me or how I parent or which parenting books I might have read. I'm not asking for practical advice. (Because b"H, I have healthier places to look for parenting advice than an online forum of women I know nothing about.)
I want to understand it.
Because the real truth is that every thread I followed about this topic had two kind of anti-potchers: Those who say it's abuse and there's always another way but don't actually provide any other suggestions, and those that do things (like hold the kid down or engage in endless power struggles) that to my mind seem much worse than potching.
So why is everyone so against it?

BrisketBoss

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:34 pm

When you hit an adult, it's called assault and it's illegal. Yet, striking a child is much worse. The child is vulnerable and dependent on you. Their brain is developing and you are teaching them how to deal with emotions, and what loving relationships look like. Be careful what you teach them.

amother

Sun, Dec 24 2023, 9:35 pm

Giraffe wrote:

Meh at this point, if you want to hit your kids, then do so. Who cares anymore?

No, I really don't, and I know that I have a temper that is fairly easily activated, so it would not be a good place for me to go.
I'm asking from more of an intellectual perspective. Because I read some of these posts and I can't handle when grown women start throwing titles like abuser at each other without talking cold, logical facts.