Is debt ok? | Imamother

amother

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 3:20 pm

What about for things necessities one truly cannot pay for?

What about family needs?
What about things the kids need?

Things you want but don't need? Are you ever allowed to live large just a little bit (I.e. I want new bras technically I can use the ones I have. Don't have the money now but they're old. What about Im going to E"Y and want a nice tour there that I usually can't afford?) (Or what if I need clothes for a new job, each thing is maybe $20 but it's more than I have. But I need to dress nicely for work) (or I want to visit family but the trip is $300 with gas and tolls, should I just never go?) Etc.

And we are not talking about situations where you can save up for it

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 3:35 pm

Depends who you ask.

If you ask me, no

I’m sure others will disagree with me

BH I’m not in debt

But I also don’t go to Israel just stam (not in my budget) and I certainly wouldn’t pay for an expensive tour

New clothes and bras: so long the ones I have are wearable, no I don’t buy new.

amother

Floralwhite

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 3:38 pm

If something is a real necessity and you literally don't have the money for it then I think it's okay to put it on a credit card. As long as you realize that you might be digging a hole that you can't get out of unless you do it responsibly like finding a card that has 0% interest and you have a plan in advance to pay off that thing slowly.

I definitely don't think it's okay to borrow money from people or take tzedaka for something like a tour which is completely different than not having proper undergarments.

amother

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 3:38 pm

amother Periwinkle wrote:

.
The E"Y is for something very specific
.not going stam
Taking a family member who needs to go for various reasons.
I have no clothes except sweatshirts and one long skirt. I can't wear that to work. Bras are very old and don't give support anymore.

amother

Azure

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 3:41 pm

amother OP wrote:

Work clothes and new bras if yours are very old are important.
Paying for a tour when going to Israel , not important .

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 3:42 pm

amother OP wrote:

I’d skip the tour and spend the $300 on clothes and bra.

amother

Ginger

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 3:51 pm

I personally don’t worship the religion that says that debt is the worst thing to ever occur to someone
I think that it’s important to just always weigh pros and cons. Is what you need to buy worth the debt?
When I was on full and complete bedrest for 4 months, a full time housekeeper was worth the debt. Because my and my family’s sanity is way more important than money. I also strongly believe that money is from Hashem. If you or your child needs therapy, that’s important. You just do it, whether or not you can afford it.
Hashem always makes things work out when you don’t view debt as the worst thing ever to occur to mankind and don’t have money anxiety
And sometimes you need a new bra so you spend $60. Nu. That’s life
Just be normal and dont go into debt buying diamonds

amother

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 4:02 pm

amother Ginger wrote:

Ok so my question about the money is from Hashem thing- why isn't that belief that Hashem gives me that money in the moment. Why is that ok, I'll put it on the credit card and then down the line Hashem will give me?

Meaning like if I believe Hashem determines all parnassah and will work out what I need, why do I need debt? He's only gonna work out what I need in the future and not now?

amother

Orange

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 4:07 pm

It depends. How will you pay the credit card off at the end of the month? Do you plan on carrying a balance until it's too large, doing a balance transfer and the zero interest for x months game until you owe 20k+ and then settling the debt for 5k but taking a hit to your credit and owing income tax on the cancelled debt? Sometimes it's worth having debt but you need to consider how you will eventually get out and the cost of doing so. A friend of mine now owes something close to 70k between all her credit cards and plans to settle it all for 20k, give or take. Since she owns her house, she doesn't care about her credit. Personally, I never spend what I don't have and can't pay. But that's me. I also do not have a mortgage (on either of our properties) or any student loans. But I do believe some debt is good. I use my credit cards for everything but pay in full. I have car loans, but autopay monthly. Years ago, I fell into debt and worked hard to get out so now I am careful to only spend what I can afford. You know yourself best. How will you deal with past due credit cards and hounding phone calls? Can you handle that? Either way, hatzlacha and parnassa should come your way.

amother

Black

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 4:09 pm

I think taking on debt with no way/plan to pay it back should not be done unless it's an emergency. If you need clothes for a job that you have been hired for, obviously you need clothes. Can you find used or go to a gemach or borrow until you get your first paycheck? Orr maybe get a skirt or two and few cheaper shirts if you have no alternative. You can't wear a sweatshirt and slinky skirt if the dress code is more professional.

I wouldn't buy new bras unless needed. My bras and underwear are old too. I wouldn't spend on a tour if you don't have the money for it.

TranquilityAndPeace

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 4:18 pm

Someone wise once said to me many years ago when we struggled financially:

So, you get into debt? So what? Tides will turn and you’ll get out of it. There’s no debtors prison in America B”H!!!!!

amother

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 4:19 pm

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

Yes I agree with this one hundred percent. But where is the limit?

amother

Mauve

Thu, Jan 04 2024, 4:25 pm

These debt conversations always interest me because in israel, I guess, credit cards work differently, or at least mine does. We have a misgeret, a limit, to how much we can go under zero. And after that, our credit card will not work. We will not be able to buy anything. Even things that are on monthly payments, we will get a call telling us that the payment has not gone through.
So, living in debt is something so foreign to me. And I am glad that my bank / credit card has a limit to how much I can go under. That way I cant make any big purchases when I have no money to do so.
I personally would not want to ever live in debt. Too much anxiety and it would make me so nervous all of the time.
How does one pay off the debt? Its a vicious cycle, no?

amother

Hyssop

Fri, Jan 05 2024, 6:18 am

amother Mauve wrote:

I lived in israel and now live in America. The misgeret is the debt. If you have a misgeret of 20k shekel. You are in debt of 20k shekel. American cards for the most part have a limit on them and will get declined if you reach that limit. It’s more or less the same in both countries just in israel you owe the bank and in America you owe the cc company- both are considered debt.

juggling

Fri, Jan 05 2024, 6:29 am

It is harder to get into debt over your head in Israel. However, it's possible. You can max out more than one credit card, plus an overdraft at the bank, plus personal loans via the bank or cc company. It's harder to do, because there are monthly payment requirements and you'll quickly realize if it's more than you can handle. Oh, and in Israel you can actually go to prison for unpaid debts.

In any case, the issue with debt is that it catches up with you. So for a real necessity, or in an absolute emergency, you do what you need to do. But taking on debt to pay for something you just Stam want today but don't have a real plan for paying back? It's a habit that can get you in real financial trouble in the future.

notshanarishona

Fri, Jan 05 2024, 7:19 am

I put stuff on the credit card sometimes when I can’t afford it, as long as I know I will be able to pay it off before I get charged interest or my credit score will go down.
Sometimes when things are tight I will transfer balances from card to card for a while to buy time but I don’t think it’s ever ok to just have unpaid bills because that will grow so quickly and never be able to catch up.

amother

Iris

Fri, Jan 05 2024, 7:21 am

Generally speaking its an absolutely terrible idea.

There are exceptions. Like visiting your parents, grandparents on occasion. Or new underwear if its very needed if you can't get that from donations.