Is there a connection between asd and pandas?

amother

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 9:23 pm

We had some concerns when dc was younger. We thought maybe asd. He got some intervention but not sure that did much cause they were focusing on academics and he is great academically. B h. He went into kindergarten our concerns faded besides for socially a bit not the reg. Then after a long stretch he turned into a pandas monster. Plus some minor asd concerns intensified. So as we're trying to navigate this difficult challenge I'm left wondering, does he have pandas plus asd or were asd symptoms really early pandas signs?

amother

NeonGreen

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 9:41 pm

There is a lot of overlap, both in symptoms and in etiology.

Pandas is very often "misdiagnosed" as asd. I put misdiagnosed in quotes because they aren't really mutually exclusive diagnoses. So it's not either they have asd, or pandas, or both. Because asd is a diagnosis based on symptoms, and pandas is a cause. So a child can truly qualify for an asd diagnosis, but the cause would be pandas.

Asd has many layers of causes biomedically speaking, brain inflammation and chronic infections are a big piece for most kids, but not all of it. So a child can have pandas as a cause of their asd, plus also other causes.

The only way to know if pandas is the sole cause of your child's behaviors or there's more going on is by seeing how many symptoms go away with pandas treatment. Functional medicine testing can also help pinpoint your childs individual causes.

My child with pandas could have qualified for an asd diagnosis when they were flaring/in a bad place pandas-wise, but there was always a dramatic, obvious shift with antibiotics and anti inflammatories and most symptoms have faded away with us focusing mostly on pandas treatments.

But we also target gut health, minerals, methylation, etc, which are other pieces that are issues with asd. Because even with just pandas, it's never really just about the strep.

amother

Sand

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 12:49 am

I have a kid with asd diagnosis. Personally I don't believe he has asd even though he behaves like it. It may be pandas (another sibling had) or something else but behaviorally it looks like asd. Asd is behavior not the cause

amother

NeonBlue

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 7:32 am

amother Sand wrote:

All you need is some bloodwork to back up your point.

amother

Whitesmoke

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 7:39 am

amother NeonGreen wrote:

What is methylation?

amother

Stonewash

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 8:41 am

I’m definitely following as I have a child who has been struggling with pandas who is highly sensory.

He is often spacey and in his head …more like adhd then asd.

The connection between sensitivity to strep and overall a sensitive nature fascinates and also confuses me.

Hugs to us all and our suffering kiddos.

amother

Stonewash

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 8:43 am

amother NeonGreen wrote:

.

Asd has many layers of causes biomedically speaking, brain inflammation and chronic infections are a big piece for most kids, but not all of it. So a child can have pandas as a cause of their asd, plus also other causes.
.

I never knew this.

That asd cause is in big part brain inflammation. I thought it is mostly genetic.
Am I totally wrong here?

Chayalle

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 8:44 am

I have a brother on the ASD spectrum, and my mother said there was something different in him right away as a newborn, in the hospital (he was her 9th child so she had experience, etc...) I do believe there are genetic links to ASD.

amother

Sand

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 8:46 am

amother Stonewash wrote:

I never knew this.

That asd cause is in big part brain inflammation. I thought it is mostly genetic.
Am I totally wrong here?

This makes no sense even though they tell us that. You know any 80, 60 or even 40 year old who are autistic? Are you or your husband? There too many kids who are, and not enough adults, and it's not because we all weren't diagnosed as kids.

But whatever. Point aside, you can heal the brain. Like kids who detox from parasites have asd symptoms go away... Kids who stop red dye... a crazy study about how mold makes asd... etc

amother

Stonewash

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 8:50 am

amother Sand wrote:

I strongly disagree.

There are so many adults who mask in public and in private are so hard to deal with.
Rage, perfectionism …the works. And anlso don’t forget that they suffer …annd the people anround them too. And of course many have misdiagnosed sensory imbalances and disorders from adhd and asd…and often end up looking like personality disorders too as a result of years of being unable to,ge their needs met due to sensory overload and communication challenges.

Again, I strongly disagree with you.

amother

Stonewash

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 8:51 am

Chayalle wrote:

My question is if brain inflammation is a k own major cause.

If not the poster should put in a caveat that this is an opinion of functional medicine.

amother

NeonGreen

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 8:57 am

amother Stonewash wrote:

I never knew this.

That asd cause is in big part brain inflammation. I thought it is mostly genetic.
Am I totally wrong here?

Cleaely there are genetic and hereditary components because we see it running in families, but most likely those genes are ones that affect things like detoxification, methylation and immune response. These are the kinds of genes that are not a life sentence like genes for downs syndrome and cystic fibrosis. Rather, they are genes that are highly influenced by environment and lifestyle.

Much of the newer research points to brain inflammation as a major player in asd

https://www.medschool.umarylan......html

https://news.harvard.edu/gazet.....dels/

amother

Stonewash

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 8:58 am

amother Sand wrote:

…you can heal the brain. Like kids who detox from parasites have asd symptoms go away... Kids who stop red dye... a crazy study about how mold makes asd... etc

So this also has me questioning all the anti parasite movement.

If a child is highly sensitive to parasites, mold, dust, and bacteria, then they are going to keep meeting up with issues throughout life unless they go live off the grid and own a farm that grandpa bought for free for them that feeds them til their dying (very lonely cuz no one’s joining them there) day.

Meaning to say highly sensitive kids need to be given tools to emotionally deal with a life on edge because right now it’s pandas or other stuff or pinworms and in 15 years it will be the seminary dorm or the neighbors moldy shower.

I don’t think the answer lies in the physical treatments as much as teaching resilience via emotional tolerance and self acceptance. I may be the odd man out here but the Torah is full of working on our character and only a small amount talks about food and exercise.

Our brain does yes change our body.

I am going the medical route too but am wary of all the 100% focus on physical treatments when these children are set up for a life of suffering if their highly sensitive nature isn’t normalized and skills taught.

amother

NeonGreen

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 9:00 am

amother Stonewash wrote:

My question is if brain inflammation is a k own major cause.

If not the poster should put in a caveat that this is an opinion of functional medicine.

It's not an opinion. It's a fact backed by reams of scientific evidence. Here's a sampling from pubmed

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.....7314/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.....7322/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31273718/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/.....04597

https://www.frontiersin.org/jo...../full