help me choose a kindergarten please!!!!

amother

Wed, Oct 07 2009, 3:25 pm

So next week, the fun begins as schools begin to take applications for kindergarten. I have narrowed it down to 2 schools and here is my dillemma. For arguments sake, it will be school 1 vs. school 2.

School #1 is warm, and more caring then school #2 . It is academic, but not of the highest which is OK with me. There are principals to talk to, and secretaries that care- or at least seem to! classes of no more than 25, School #2 has 30 per class. Major problem that I have is that in School #1, there is more of a mix in terms of frumkeit. In school #1, half are as frum as me, the other half I would consider slightly more modern- at least in appearances of mothers and kids. School #2 is definitely more frum which appeals to me, but in school #2, they are very academic and I have been told that people hire tutors to keep their kids up to par. DC seem intelligent to me but who knows how smart a kid is until they are a bit older. So while I like the crowd in school #2 much better, they have rigorous academic standards and I undertand their curriculum is intense.

So my dilemma breaks down to this- What is more important? A frummer enviroment and a very intense learning experience, or a less frum- ( and by no means do I mean not frum rather less makpid on say where a woman thinks her knees are)in 25%-30% of the parent body but a more pleasant, warm, enviroment and learning experience.

Opinions please?

red sea

Wed, Oct 07 2009, 5:40 pm

Quote:

( and by no means do I mean not frum rather less makpid on say where a woman thinks her knees are

)

LOL, nicely put! It is really a personal judgement call, make lists, pros cons, also remember sometimes a child learning to live with mixed types is a plus, its a lifelong needed skill. Why don't you apply to both to buy more time. Visit both schools if you can to get more of a feel. Talk to parents who are your type that chose to send to that school that is mixed, too. See what they think of it.

amother

Wed, Oct 07 2009, 6:04 pm

In answer to both your questions - I know both schools inside out. I went to one and I have a kid in one too. I know parents in both schools.
In answer to your other question- Yes I could always switch, but heres the problem-
DC is in school #1
They know I have another kid.
If I dont put next DC in to school #1 they might not take DC back.
Older kid is almost out of there so I dont care if they care or not.
p
In School #2, the one I went to, Principal knows me and does the interviews. They will probably accept DC to their school but If I refuse them after they accept me, my chances of ever getting in there again are zero. It is extremely hard to get into there so once they accept me, I either go or forever lose my chance.
It boils down to frummer vs. friendlier/smaller classes/nicer staff.

Help!

amother

Wed, Oct 07 2009, 6:21 pm

The reason its so hard to get in is 1- their are alot of siblings from the current classes and only 2 incoming classes. Also, because of its academic excellence coupled with its very frum parent body, some parents are willing to put their not so smart kids (as they find out later) through the ringer in order to have that frum enviroment and frum friend for their kids. I just dont know what to do.

sim

Wed, Oct 07 2009, 6:25 pm

amother wrote:

That does not sound like a great scenario. If, as a parent, you run a strong frum home, why do you need to put your child through the wringer for the frum friend and environment? Sounds like an awful tradeoff. The other school doesn't sound that much less frum. A mix isn't such a bad thing -- I learned so much from the families of friends who may not have been outwardly as observant (tzniuswise) but inwardly were so much more connected to yiddishkeit, as I came to see as I grew up.

amother

Wed, Oct 07 2009, 6:35 pm

Sim, you have a great point.

I would like to send her to the 1st school but everyone is telling me that if it is not so frum the kids will have a bad influence on her, and these days a frum enviroment is most important for kids growing up.

It is true that alot of the parent body does not make me happy in terms of their dress, (or lack of it!)

It does bother me when I see women doing the summer going around in flip flops with painted toe nails and a skirt an inch above the leg. I know that does not mean that they are not nice, or lack good middos but as a first impressions, it is very difficult not to form opinions. This is what is holding me back.

That is not to say that I will find some parents like me as well but I dont think I am the majority.

sim

Wed, Oct 07 2009, 7:49 pm

First -- what's your experience with your first child who is already in school #1? This is important and should be considered.
Second -- as a family, are you equipped to deal with a child coming home with a great deal of difficult work from school #2, some of which may need a great deal of parental involvement?
Third -- you've mentioned that the parent body is a mix. What about the staff? Are they, in general, people like you? If they are, chances are good that your standards will be upheld in school. Again, if you have a strong frum home and manage to impart that to your kids, one or two not-so-tzniusdik friends won't make it or break it. I'm sure that you're aware that you could send your child to the frummest school in the world, and it will still be possible to make the worst possible friend there!
My personal prejudice forces me to be suspicious of the "academic excellence." It just sounds like a snobbery that will make many individual kids miserable. And if you are worried about "off the derech" I've never met a kid OTD who went to a school that was not frum enough. It was always the contrary. I know, this proves nothing, and I'm rambling, but you made a decision to send your other child to #1. Why are you second-guessing yourself? You sound intelligent and well-informed, so trust yourself and don't worry so much about what people say if you are happy with the results from the first child.

amother

Wed, Oct 07 2009, 9:06 pm

My doubts stem from the fact that in DC's class that is there already, We were very lucky and there a majority of great kids in that class which makes up for the very few who I am not 100% thrilled with.

This was a newer school and we went with it as I am of the opinion that sometimes new/fresh=great ideas, and a better way of doing things, and coming from school #2 where I was, I must add I was a terrible student academically and behavior wise so I did not thrive there but I know that kids who are well behaved and smart academically do thrive there and great kids come out of that school.

In School #1, For the past few years though, and please dont jump on me, the caliber of people they started to accept was beyond my standards and even their standards. People came in to interviews dressed like nuns and references made up stories to get people into the school. I spoke to the principal about this and now they are trying to be 100% sure that everyone who does apply there belongs there from a haskafic point of view, but of course, anyone can trick even a principal. So the caliber of people going into Kindergarten the past few years has been less desirable and I was extremely unhappy about it. Now they are tring to minimize the damage done, if you understand what I am saying.

imasinger

Wed, Oct 07 2009, 10:32 pm

Where is your DC in all of this? By the time a child is ready for kindergarten, you probably have some idea of how s/he responds to different environments, and whether s/he will thrive better with the warmer approach or the more challenging approach. Even if you don't have an exact number on an intelligence test, you know your child. Can that help you with this decision?

My experience in teaching music in a number of different schools with different hashgafos (nobody can afford a music teacher full time, so I hop from one school to another) is that in the younger grades, kids are far more influenced by their homes than by their classmates. That changes by middle school sometimes.

I can tell you I had a similar issue with one of my children going into 9th grade. We went with the stricter environment, figuring it would be much easier to make a switch one way if there were a problem than there would be to make a switch the other way. So far, so good.

Imaonwheels

Thu, Oct 08 2009, 4:27 am

Mother of 7 teenagers or post (married children). Do not ever send to a school where things not done at home are not the norm. I know that that young parents usually see the small child they have and the teenager he will become. Many just don't have the 20/20 hindsight we have after the fact.

It means constant issues over the norms of her friends
It means either the school or you not being respected
It means implying a hechsher on all that goes on there because YOU sent her there
It may mean teachers that don't respect how you hold or consider what you feel is halacha to be needless chumra
It means hashkafa entering that you do not realize its ramifications until your child is an adult - attitudes towards rabbonim, values, etc

The "where do they go" test is one of the best. I always ask yeshivos where most of their grads continue. You would be surprised what can happen to a kid who proudly tells his friends that he was accepted to x yeshiva that he really wanted and all of his friends laugh. It happened to my kids with disasterous results. They usually want to apply where their friends do and by 8th grade it is already too late.

From a pure educational standpoint I am surprised you do not mention the midos or yiras shamayim of older kids there. When I visit a school I walk around and go outside during recess to see if there are no problems with bullying, foul language , etc. A lot of things can be compensated for and much of what we think is so important as parents protecting our babies turns out to be so irrelevant unless we make an issue of it. But a loss of yiras shamayim because of the peer group is the hardest of all. Why is so little concern about what is being taught formally and informally? Aren't we sending them for an education?

You are not choosing a kindergarten, you are choosing the institution that will be your partner in bringing your child up to be the person they will become. The picture is bigger than the touchy feely rating of a particular teacher. All school are not perfect and all have less than perfect teachers - some more so than others. Adjusting to a different teacher each year and their methods is part of a healthy education.

amother

Thu, Oct 08 2009, 7:51 am

School #2 is definitely more of our Hashkafic approach as there are more people there who are like us or at least where we emulate to be.
I wonder outloud though because I am sacrificing
smaller classes
individual attention
Principals and teachers who you can talk you and are open to Parental involvement
A "fun" way of getting the kids to learn- at least in the younger grades.

I would send to school #2 in a heartbeat but what makes me nervous is:
the 30 in a class
what the Principal says is (Like Toras Moshe Misinai)
Some of the Teachers are older and set in their ways
They are academically very strong and how should I know if DC can handle it- DC is only 3
If you have a problem you are tortured till you can get to the Principal and it may not help anyway

I love for the most part the kids that are coming out of school #2. They are being raised in the way I want to raise my kids.
In school #1, the kids are being raised as more independant. They go to Pizza together in younger grades, like 6th grade after school, they hang out together at Ice Cream etc., and by no means do I imply that they do not behave when they go. They do. I just prefer to have a tighter leash- so to speak - on my kids- For example, we went somewhere on Chol Hamoed- from School #1, kids went off by themselves with friends (think 6-8 graders, and we prefered as the parents from school #2 would have prefered to have our kids follow us around and hang out with us). Am I being too much of a control freak????

Also I had a negative experience personally in school #2. I was not that smart, or you can say that I did not try really hard. I made trouble and I was always blamed for things as teacher assumed I was the one making the trouble. I was known as class clown. So what scares the daylights out of me is that DC will fail as I did, academically and socially, though a lot of it was due to my upringing as my parents did not know better.

DC who is in school #1 is doing well there but again, has a BH great class which some of the classes do not have there. I know you can have the best/worse school in the world but it is the class that makes or breaks it.
I am so confused.

amother

Thu, Oct 08 2009, 9:06 am

(not the OP)
I am in a similar situation now--some of the details are a little different but there is a lot of overlap. someone gave me some good advice which I am sharing now--in school #1, a lot will depend on exactly who is in her class/grade. I was advised to wait until close to the end of registration time and then ask school #1 to give me a list of enrolled children. in my case, #1 is still the "underdog" school and they will be willing to let me see exactly who will be in that grade since they would want me to send there. Once you have a list of families in her class/grade you will be in much better position to decide if it's a good fit hashkafically. If the list is not satisfactory to you, I would go with school #2.

amother

Thu, Oct 08 2009, 9:22 am

I am the OP

problem with that is that all schools do interviews at the same time, school #1 perhaps a bit later than school #2 and when you get interviewed, if you get an acceptance letter, you have like 3 days to send in a substantial deposit of at least 500 dollars and you cannot wait and have to take the spot. I could gamble and lose 500 which would be a substantial loss but what I could do is register in 2 schools and even pull out in August. If I do that though and pull out at the last minute, Neither school will ever take me again if I am not happy wit the other and there is not much else to choose from, though the more I think about it, "buying" myself the extra time by registering in 2 schools is the only way I will be able to have a slot in school #2, and then I can wait till school #1 has a comlete class list.....