do you call it menorah or chanukiah?

shevi82

Thu, Dec 06 2012, 6:23 am

amother wrote:

Yarmulka-kisui rosh, shaitel, peah nochris, synagogue, beis hakneses beis hamidrash yeshiva (or shtiebel in yiddish) and of course no word for gemara, as it was written after the Torah. Duh. Its Torah shebal peh, that was written down so it would not be forgotten. Then it became known as the Gemara.
Chanuka is not in the Torah either. Loshon Kodesh is a holy language. Ivrit is a Zionist invention.

Today Ivrit is spoken in Israel not Lashon Hakodesh. so if you live here you use the language.
Besides I'm sure you realize there were alot of good Zionist inventions.

lech lecha08

Thu, Dec 06 2012, 8:13 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

amother wrote:

The word chanukia is a Zionist made up word. There is no such word in the Hebrew language of the Torah. There was a Chanuka Menora and a Beis Hamikdosh Menorah. One had 9 lights and one had 7. Both are menorahs. One was made of pure gold, and most of ours are made of silver or any other material.
Happy Hanuka! Or is it a Freilechen Chanuka?!

All I have to say to this is YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I grew up saying menorah, but now, living in israel, my daughter comes home talking about a chanukiah. So, I taught her about the fact that we use some words that are yiddish and now she knows both.

same here.
We also say svivon now. Last year, halfway through the song, I realized that my kids have no clue what a dreidel is.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Dec 06 2012, 8:20 am

lech lecha08 wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

amother wrote:

same here.
We also say svivon now. Last year, halfway through the song, I realized that my kids have no clue what a dreidel is.

Thats why I taught my daughter that there is another language etc. My MIL does not know hebrew but boy does she know the dreidel, dreidel, dreidel song and she sings it with my daughter, so we explained Smile

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Dec 06 2012, 8:22 am

amother wrote:

but nobody SPEAKS lashon hakodesh now. If you live in Israel, you speak Ivrit.
So, if chanukah is not in the torah either, then what should we say instead? Rolling Eyes

zaq

Thu, Dec 06 2012, 9:49 am

amother wrote:

If you can find "peah nochris" or "beis knesses" in Tanach, I'll eat your sheitel.

The language of the Tanach was not being used as a daily language as early as the time of the Mishna. Modern-day Ivrit is a Zionist reincarnation of a language that was essentially dead for well over 2000 years. This is a miracle. Of course they invented words. The world changes every millennium or so, and a living language has to evolve to accommodate it. Linguistic experts can point out differences between the language of the Chumash and the language of Nach, and the time gap between those works is only a fraction of the time gap between the closing of the tanach and the revival of Hebrew as a living language.

Zionism is not a dirty word. Sinas Yisroel is, and yours is showing.

BTW, only cowards shoot arrows under cover of amother. You're offensive. You're also yellow-bellied. Come out and fight like a woman, not a worm.

Isramom8

Thu, Dec 06 2012, 11:34 am

Barbara wrote:

amother wrote:

You're absolutely correct. In the Torah, the word used with respect to Chanukah is "menorah." That's in B'reisheet, right.

Barbara you are onto something! Really!

Rashi explains the linkage between the end of Parshas Nasso (dealing with the offerings of the Princes of the twelve tribes) and the beginning of Parshas Beha'aloscha (dealing with the kindling of the Menorah in the Mishkan).

"Because when Aaron saw the inauguration of the Princes, he felt badly about it, for neither he nor his tribe was with them in the inauguration. The Holy One Blessed is He, said to him, 'By your life! Your role is greater than theirs, for you kindle and prepare the lamps.'" [Rashi on Bamidbar 8:2]

...In other words, the consolation alludes to the Chanukah Menorah that will continue to be lit, even subsequent to the suspension of the Temple Service.

http://www.torah.org.il/learni......html

amother

Thu, Dec 06 2012, 4:45 pm

shalhevet wrote:

I learned (as avocado mentioned) that a chanukia has 9 branches (for lighting on Chanuka) and the 7-branched menora was what was lit in the mishkan and Temple. It is simply not the same thing.

For all those worried about Ben-Yehuda's influence, all the chareidi children in EY who attend Hebrew-speaking chadarim (as opposed to Yiddish speaking) light a chanukia and know the halachas of lighting a chanukia. Of course the nes (miracle) in the Temple was with a menora, because it's not the same thing. These children also probably use many more words invented/ misinvented by Ben-Yehuda.

Technically, the word "menorah" has no specific religious significance or special link to the Beis Hamikdash. It is used to refer to a generic lamp/candelabra, and was adopted for use in connection to neiros Chanukah because we light a candelabra.

zaq

Thu, Dec 06 2012, 7:03 pm

amother wrote:

You're quite right--so why are you hiding behind amother? Step forward and take credit for your linguistic knowledge!

And the proof of what you say, in LOSHN KOYDESH for the edification of our anti-Zionist amother, can be found in Melachim Bet, 4:10, and I quote "naaseh na aliyat kir ketanah venasim lo sham mittah veshulchan vechissei uMENORAH..." (Let us make for him a small rooftop room and place for him there a bed and a table and a chair and a LAMP.) Lamp, as in a device to shed light. Decidedly not The Menorah. Just as a "mizbeach" is a generic term for an altar, not specifically THE altars in the Temple, and just as "kiyor" is a generic term for a basin, not THE basin, and "mazleg" is the generic term for a fork, not THE forks used to handle the korbanot....

Yes, the tanach was written in loshn kodesh--but it was also "leshon basar vadam". It wasn't invented just for the purpose of the Torah--the Torah was written in loshon kodesh because at the time it was also a living, breathing, evolving, HUMAN language that Bnei Yisrael USED and SPOKE. Yes, for everyday things like "How should I know who stole your wells?""How much do you want for that burial plot?" and "Please help yourself to some parched corn."

In Zionist modern Ivrit, you have your menorat shemen (oil lamp) menorat chashmal (electric lamp), menorat neft (kerosene lamp) menorat LED (JK, I don't know the term for LED lamp but I'm sure someone here does) as well as your menorat Chanuka (Chanuka lamp).

Oh, and for the further edification of our anti-Zionist amother, Ben Yehuda made every effort to use Biblical Hebrew terms and roots for his neologisms whenever there was an object or concept for which no word existed in tanach. Hence, zechuchit for glass is from the root "z-ch", meaning "pure" "clear" as in shemen zayit ZACH. Of course zechuchit is a "Zionist" word--there is no Biblical word for glass because glass DID NOT EXIST in the time of the Tanach. In point of fact, Ben Yehuda tried to use many Biblical roots and words that simply never "took", people preferring to use the more familiar international words like "telephone" rather than his "sach-rachok" (speaks far). Some words made it, some didn't. Even a word has to have mazal.