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Forum
-> Coronavirus Health Questions
amother
Cantaloupe
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Sat, Jul 03 2021, 11:03 pm
fleetwood wrote: | Of course it doesn't last long. I know three people who died after catching it a second time. |
There are about 100 published cases in the world. And the second infection was always milder than the first.
I also know someone who had chicken pox 3 times but it's extremely rare.
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amother
Cantaloupe
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 1:04 am
challahchallah wrote: | One example of the mRNA vaccines providing additional immunity beyond natural immunity is that it appears to be broader protection to different strains. One specific example is the South African variant which seems to respond to vaccine antibodies* but not convalescent antibodies**.
* https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.01.25.427948
** https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.01.26.21250224
Can you share the studies you reference showing that natural immunity lasts a lifetime and the vaccine provides no additional benefits? |
These studies both look at antibody levels elicited in a lab from blood samples.
The first sample uses immunized monkeys as subjects.
The second is a tiny prospective study with just 6 (human) participants. It finds that antibody response against variants is lower than against the original and possibly than the Pfizer vaccine. This study was funded by the Gates foundation which has an interest in Pfizer.
These studies may or may not be good starting points for further research. Obvious limitations are: use of non-human subjects, tiny sample size, prospective nature of the study, and ignoring the rest of how immunity works aside from antibody levels alone and outside of a lab environment.
Eta. These studies don't compare with the quality of the Cleveland Clinic study linked above, which had over 52,000 participants and looked at them in real life, not blood samples interacting with antibodies in a lab, as well as the bone marrow study.
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amother
OP
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 7:41 am
I want to thank everyone for their replies so far. I think I've come to a decision, but I don't want to influence anyone in either direction, so I think I'm gonna keep it to myself, if that's ok with you all. Everyone should be zocheh to choose the right hishtadlus for their situation, and remember that it's just that. Hishtadlus.
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amother
Stoneblue
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 9:58 am
amother [ OP ] wrote: | I want to thank everyone for their replies so far. I think I've come to a decision, but I don't want to influence anyone in either direction, so I think I'm gonna keep it to myself, if that's ok with you all. Everyone should be zocheh to choose the right hishtadlus for their situation, and remember that it's just that. Hishtadlus. |
What a tease . We'd love to know what you chose.
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fleetwood
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 10:16 am
amother [ Cantaloupe ] wrote: | There are about 100 published cases in the world. And the second infection was always milder than the first.
I also know someone who had chicken pox 3 times but it's extremely rare. |
I personally know 3 people who died after the second case. Plus I know 2 people who were much sicker the second time. I know each of these people personally.
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amother
Cantaloupe
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 10:27 am
fleetwood wrote: | I personally know 3 people who died after the second case. Plus I know 2 people who were much sicker the second time. I know each of these people personally. |
Do you know if they had a positive antibody test after the first time?
Just saying, it would be highly unusual especially in light of what we now know from the 52,000+ Cleveland Clinic study.
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fleetwood
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 10:46 am
amother [ Cantaloupe ] wrote: | Do you know if they had a positive antibody test after the first time?
Just saying, it would be highly unusual especially in light of what we now know from the 52,000+ Cleveland Clinic study. |
The three who died I don't know. But my friend who was so sick after her second case..did not have antibodies after her first case. She tested positive twice with months in between cases. She has since been vaccinated.
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amother
Scarlet
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 11:15 am
amother [ Acacia ] wrote: | It's not only about which is better. You also have to consider if it's worth it taking a vaccine with unknown long term effects, that may or may not be effective, when you already have some degree of immunity. | I didn't put this in my post, but I was thinking this as well. There are side effects that are coming out now and although it's a tiny percent, I wouldn't risk it if someone already had it. Although mainly it's affecting teens and young men.
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amother
Tomato
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 11:19 am
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote: | I didn't put this in my post, but I was thinking this as well. There are side effects that are coming out now and although it's a tiny percent, I wouldn't risk it if someone already had it. Although mainly it's affecting teens and young men. |
Yup exactly this - if you already had it the chances of getting it again are minimal according to the CDC. Therefore I would not risk the side effects of the vaccine.
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amother
Cantaloupe
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 11:33 am
fleetwood wrote: | The three who died I don't know. But my friend who was so sick after her second case..did not have antibodies after her first case. She tested positive twice with months in between cases. She has since been vaccinated. |
Then the question is if she truly had it the first time or the test gave a false positive. But maybe your friend was in the minority who did not develop sufficient immunity, as evidenced by her lack of antibodies. As I said above, I know someone who had chicken pox 3 times.
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amother
Cantaloupe
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 11:35 am
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote: | I didn't put this in my post, but I was thinking this as well. There are side effects that are coming out now and although it's a tiny percent, I wouldn't risk it if someone already had it. Although mainly it's affecting teens and young men. |
It's also unclear whether the heart issues are mainly affecting younger people, or whether these symptoms are simply masked in older people. If a 55 year old suffers heart inflammation 2 weeks after getting the vaccine, they will find 10 other possible causes that it could have been, rather than the vaccine.
With 15 year olds, they had no choice but to admit the causality.
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amother
Cantaloupe
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 11:44 am
SixOfWands wrote: | Please post studies that show that immunity from covid infection is expected to last a lifetime. Or that it doesn't decline at least moderately after 6 to 8 months. |
Aside from the fact that I shared the study and, as predicted, just got crickets in response. This is the wrong question to ask. You don't undergo a medical intervention that's not necessary because we hope it might have the ability to offer protection.
We first need the evidence that the vaccine provides additional protection to those with natural immunity. Without that evidence, there is no justification for taking an injection. Especially an unlicensed one.
And that evidence simply does not exist.
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fleetwood
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 11:54 am
amother [ Cantaloupe ] wrote: | Then the question is if she truly had it the first time or the test gave a false positive. But maybe your friend was in the minority who did not develop sufficient immunity, as evidenced by her lack of antibodies. As I said above, I know someone who had chicken pox 3 times. |
She works in a doctor's office..it was not a false positive...she was tested several time
We are making the same point. You can get covid again. The immunity doesn't last that long
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amother
Cantaloupe
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 12:09 pm
fleetwood wrote: | She works in a doctor's office..it was not a false positive...she was tested several time
We are making the same point. You can get covid again. The immunity doesn't last that long |
We make decisions based on the information we have. As of now, it appears that natural immunity for the vast overwhelming majority of people will be broad and enduring. While the vaccine carries definite risks.
We don't recommend everyone who had chicken pox to nevertheless get the chicken pox vaccine, because a tiny minority of people do not develop lasting immunity.
Perhaps it would make sense to check titers before getting the vaccine for those who had covid. Two years ago when measles was going around, I had my titers checked. Since they were low, I got the measles vaccine.
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amother
Sand
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 1:47 pm
My situation is as follows.
I had covid very mildly in April last year I think. I had the two vaccines since then.
I have had a chesty cough for about a week and a runny nose but otherwise feel fine. I went to the doctor who said I must get a test for Covid. I thought it was somewhat unnecessary to have a proper covid test because I didn't really have symptoms but I had the test.
I got the result yesterday and it was B"H negative.
BTW I live in London so I was given the Astra Zeneca vaccine.
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amother
Acacia
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Sun, Jul 04 2021, 2:53 pm
fleetwood wrote: | She works in a doctor's office..it was not a false positive...she was tested several time
We are making the same point. You can get covid again. The immunity doesn't last that long |
The immunity does seem to last longer for most people. Majority of people that got covid in the beginning have not gotten it again. The few people you know may be exceptions.
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