Finance shaming | Imamother

amother

Kiwi

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 8:11 am

amother Glitter wrote:

Yes yes yes yes yes
This exactly!
People here are so bitter it’s incredible
If at any point, part of your thread is judgement or assumptions on someone else’s income or expenses, then you are the problem.

So why when my neighbor lost their house, the person to rent out a house out for them on their behalf was a man in the neighborhood who drives an old car lives in a nice but not fancy house dresses yeshivish and not fancy? Why couldn’t all the well dressed ferragamo bmw drivers be the first ones to help out?

amother

Floralwhite

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 8:22 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

Yes this. I know two people who almost lost their house and both times, they were saved by super simple living yeshivish people (who had money).

ETA: But to be fair, I also know someone who was saved by a very wealthy living family. Maybe there are no rules on this.

amother

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 8:29 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

This is completely anecdotal.

I know if a girl who lost her husband in a very tragic way and the owner of her apartment who lives very nicely told her she no longer has to pay rent for the rest of her life.

I know of another guy who noticed a boy in shul wearing torn shoes and ordered him a $400 pair from Nordstrom

I know of another guy who took it upon himself to marry off a kid from a situational home and took him to ferragamo to buy him wedding shoes, but didn’t want him to feel stupid about being a nebach so this guy purposely bought shoes for $200 more than this kid, for himself, to show him how little it meant to him

I know of a guy who paid for a friends husband to go to rehab for a few months!

I know of another guy that paid out $100k so that a couple can try a fertility treatment. He didn’t even know them!

Each of these guys live nicely, and dress the part.
I think it’s just which circles you are in.

amother

Kiwi

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 8:30 am

amother Floralwhite wrote:

Agreed. I don’t think it’s true that those who are ostentatious are giving more than those who live more modestly.

amother

Kiwi

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 8:32 am

amother OP wrote:

Yes but I think it shows that it’s not true that you need to live a fancy lifestyle in order you give generously. You can give generously while living a more modest lifestyle too. Obviously im not talking about people who live a miserly lifestyle. They can still be very comfortable but don’t feel the need to show off, but they still give just as generously.

amother

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 8:55 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

No one said that you need to live fancy to give generously. People were just pointing out that it’s usually a personality that goes hand in hand. It’s a generous nature. Generous all around.

amother

Kiwi

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 8:58 am

amother OP wrote:

No one said that you need to live fancy to give generously. People were just pointing out that it’s usually a personality that goes hand in hand. It’s a generous nature. Generous all around.

But one doesn’t necessarily balance out the other.
If conspicuous consumption, flaunting wealth, is not a Torah value, you can’t just be generous with tzedakah and say now it’s ok.

amother

Glitter

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:00 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

You’re bringing one piece of anecdotal evidence.
The idea of living with ravchus, abundance, it very very real.
Many people here have a huge scarcity mindset. Like Hashem only created x amount of dollars in the world, which is laughable

The general consensus is that a person with an abundance mindset will give with abundance

amother

Kiwi

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:02 am

amother Glitter wrote:

Who made up that general consensus?

pause

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:16 am

It's really sad that this thread is on page 9, and only one poster brought up the example of tachrichim. Histapkus b'muat and hatzne'ah leches (tznius b'maaseh) are Jewish values that we should all be striving for. Somehow they have disappeared together with our extravagant American galus.

No, a person should NOT spend frivolously or in an ostentatious manner nor post about it here on Imamother. (Even if they're not stealing it from me... what a narrow-minded view!) Spending modestly should be the default of the rich (and of course the poor). Yes, it's a nisayon. Shlomo Hamelech said the nisayon of wealth is harder than the nisayon of poverty.

Someone else wrote that Yiddishkeit isn't communism. I'm sorry, but to a certain extent it is. Hashem gives someone money to be them mezakeh with more mitzvos. A g'vir is actually a shliach from Hashem to distribute His monies to the needy, not to spend it on himself. It says that those who use their money for the right purpose (to give tzedaka) will be blessed with more.

It's sad to read the justifications for extravagant spending. The rationalizations and explanations for how or why it's ok. I'm sorry to say it because it's not PC, but it's just not the Jewish way.

(Ducking for tomatoes Hiding

)

amother

Puce

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:26 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

Who made up that general consensus?

It's brought in Gemara. A story about collecting money, and a certain wealthy man who was overheard telling his wife to buy the wilted vegetables because they are cheaper. The Chachomim almost didn't bother going to his house because a frugal person tends to be frugal across the board. He ended up being very generous in the end, but the clear implication is that he was an outlier.

amother

Kiwi

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:28 am

amother Puce wrote:

There’s no middle ground here? We can’t buy meat and chicken but not post our steakhouse dinner online? We can’t buy nice beautiful comfortable clothing without logos splashed everywhere?

amother

Glitter

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:40 am

pause wrote:

)

This is true, 100%
I think the issue here is the judgement.
I’ve also seen posts here dripping with venom, it’s scary to read
Calling a 1.5carat Diamond vulgur? So many other words that show me it’s not righteous indignation, it’s the ugly ugly snake of jealousy.

amother

Cognac

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:51 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

Once again, poor and middle class people are held to a different standard. You make interesting assumptions about me but the minute I make an assumption about you, you complain.

Only rich people are perfect and should not be called out for anything, poor and middle class are just jealous bitter people who need to learn to deal with their feelings.

Rich people are called out daily. I don’t feel the need to add to the excessive calling out. Jealousy and entitlement are not called out enough though.

Highstrung

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 10:07 am

Flip Flops wrote:

Wealthy people are entitled to spend as much money as they want on whatever they wish. It is their money, they earned it, and they are allowed to spend it.
As someone who grew up poor and is still not wealthy, it bothers me not because I am jealous, but because I understand the value of every single dollar.

When you spend $300 on takeout dinner one night, I just think of a family that could have had their entire Shabbos paid for.
When you buy your two year old a $200 dress, I think of the seminary girl who can't afford to buy a dress to wear to her friend's wedding.
When you spend thousands on your flowers for a wedding, I think of the family that can barely buy their new kallah a diamond ring.

It's not jealousy, it's just hard to see precious money being spent on unimportant things when you are privy to the pain of poverty.

I grew up poor and have been struggling financially for decades. But when I see someone who really has money, spend it , on nice things for themselves, I’m so happy for them. HaShem granted them this gift called money. HaShem granted me gifts that they don’t have. I appreciate my gifts and they appreciate theirs. Why should they not enjoy the God given gifts they have? HaShem gave it to them to enjoy and to use in this world. What’s sad is that there are people who are looking at what others are doing and they are judging those people constantly. When it bothers you that someone is spending $300 on a meal that could potentially be feeding a poor family for 2 weeks , that’s you projecting your own experience onto someone else. There is no reason for them to need to stop living and enjoying their gifts because someone else is suffering. It’s like saying how could people keep getting married when there is so much divorce , or how could people keep having kids when there are so many struggling with infertility. Every one of us were given gifts by HaShem. Every gift is different.
It’s against the torah to be jealous. We need to fargin others for the gifts they have and to look at ourselves and express gratitude to HaShem for the gifts he gave us.

amother

Springgreen

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 10:07 am

amother Kiwi wrote:

I’m hearing more and more about how you have no room in your heart to try to think about it from another perspective.

I could afford *some* of things things (not all) but with the exception of watches, which for some reason you cannot find without a logo, I choose items without any visible logos because I know what it’s like to feel like everyone else can afford x but me.

Yes I spend time on it because I care about other people’s feelings and the feelings of the girls in my daughther’s class.

Re watches : pateks don't have a logo, or if they do, it is tiny.

(I don't know much about watches or luxury items, just have a close relative w a patek, how do I know? Long story).