More on the finance threads

Reality

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 3:34 pm

amother DarkKhaki wrote:

I have $11 in my bank account . My DH had $20 in our other account this week. I vacillate every week whether I should buy chicken every week. I still agree with the OP.
When I was growing up I had a positive view on hand me downs. Even though I received a bought dress only 4 times in my life until I was 16 , I remember that I always felt fancy in my hand me downs. My mother knew how much I wanted the United Colors of Benetton sweatshirts and she found one in a peckle of hand me downs , it had a stain and a hole. She picked it out special for me because she knew what was important to me. She closed the hole and tried to remove the stain. I knew that if we had the money she’d let me buy one . I loved that sweatshirt and wore it until it had holes. I still love hand me downs to this day. It makes me feel special and loved when I get them.

I also never cared if my clothes were hand-me-downs, as long as I liked them. But the human brain is very complex and it's not so simple and black and white to tell people they should do xyz. It is very hard to change stress related reactions.

You are so lucky that you grew up with parents who imbued you with this positive outlook. But for people who didn't, it's a lifetime of work to break the cycle of negativity.

amother

Grape

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 6:43 pm

amother Rose wrote:

Ok, then take it from me then. I have 16k in debt and can’t afford designer things etc. however I believe 1000% in what mommy3b2c is saying.
Money comes from the ribono shel olam. I am proud to say that I have never once laid awake in bed worrying about money. Never!
And before you say that I don’t know what it’s like to worry, let me tell you. I have both anxiety and depression. I take Lexipro every day which doesn’t get rid of all my symptoms. But I do have complete and total trust that everything Hashem has given me is good

Amother Rose, in all seriousness-what you wrote touched me for some reason. I suffer from depression/anxiety as well I don’t bh have parnassah problems and I’m still anxious about $ and obsess about not having. How can I get that emunah…..

amother

Acacia

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 6:45 pm

amother Thistle wrote:

You forgot the option of raising your kids in a neighborhood where no one has ever heard of moose knuckle sweaters. (Is that even a thing?) Or at the very least, in a neighborhood where it's understood, by adults as well as children, that you don't need this year's trend to fit in.

Teenagers do have a greater need to fit in with their peers than others do. But no three month old infant ever needed a trendy onesie. That baby has a mom who hasn't moved on from her teenage years.

Yup

amother

Ruby

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 7:01 pm

I don't agree. At all.

Firstly, I grew up with mentality #1 that you posted, and today, I am grown up (at 37) and I don't know one brand from another (on the other thread I had no idea what those watches they were talking about are), take hand-me-downs for myself and for my kids, and my DH who is far from a millionaire is grateful that I don't "need" so many things and make do. So it's not true to say that those who grow up this way turn into adults who flaunt stuff. IMO it's more of a personality thing to care or not care about such things, regardless of how you grew up.

However, growing up it wasn't easy, and so for my kids I do slightly differently than my parents did. Instead of saying "you have enough clothes from the bags" I make sure to buy them at least one new outfit each season, and the rest are from the bags. I'll buy them a new hair accessory here and there even if it isn't necessary. But no, I will not spend extra money for brand name things.

When my kid wasn't happy with the clothes from the bags, each thing had a different real or imagined problem, we went to the store, and I let DC choose 2 things. Of course DC didn't feel that was enough. I went beyond my "values" to get these two things, which IMO were unnecessary, but I wasn't going to go overboard to please DC because then the sky's the limit. DC saw that I took their feelings into account but still in a measured way.

Feeding a kid material things in order to be happy, creates more and bigger cravings for material things. It's an endless pit. Teaching kids to be happy with what they have, and practicing it in your own life is healthy for them and practically also setting them up for better success later in life when they won't have Mommy to buy them the latest model car or do renovations because all the neighbors are.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 7:12 pm

Reality wrote:

With all my heart, I say good for you. But for many people, it's a nisayon they fail. Why kick them when they are down? Part of being an adult is having compassion for other people's weaknesses and foibles.

For a person who struggles with bitachon, none of these posts are actually going to help them. What's the point?

And what is the point of all the posts mocking those who spend money on designer clothing and high end restaurants? Why can’t we have compassion for other peoples weaknesses and foibles?

amother

Lime

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 7:27 pm

Who cares what other people have? Let people spend their money on what they want! I grew up with the idea that we could afford anything but not everything and BH were in the position as parents to do the same. Meaning to say that there’s a finite amount of money and if we spend it on x, we can’t use it on y. Want to buy a loaded minivan from a dealer every year? Fine, but then the $50000 can’t be used to redo bathrooms this year. Want to go to Israel for Pesach? Fine, but don’t expect to go to Europe for Chanukah. Etc. And how does it bother you how people spend their money? If I want to spend money that I have that doesn’t take away from you. I grew up with hand me downs and my kids give and get hand me downs. Especially with uniforms. But we don’t take hand me down shoes. Sometimes I spend a couple hundred dollars on a pair of shoes, usually I don’t. Let people do what they want. And the people who live vicariously through their children…they need to grow up. Their not doing their kids any favors. Stop looking over your shoulder at what other people have. Whether it’s push presents (never got one, BH we could afford one but why??!!) or presents because your children or neighbor for one…I mean seriously, dont you have better things to do than keep up with the neighbors?

amother

Burlywood

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 7:30 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

And what is the point of all the posts mocking those who spend money on designer clothing and high end restaurants? Why can’t we have compassion for other peoples weaknesses and foibles?

No one is mocking. We’re pointing out that it’s problematic. But let me clarify. It’s fine for them to go to restaurants (within reason; I believe Judaism would frown upon cowboy steaks and cocktails for dinner every night based on what I learned about perishus and avoiding hedonism). But don’t post about it on your WhatsApp linked in etc.

Wear designer clothing. But don’t wear every single piece of clothing another logo. If you’re wearing balenciaga sneakers Stella McCartney sweatshirt and a Chanel bag, I don’t think that’s ok in terms of tznius

amother

Ghostwhite

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 8:41 pm

I grew up with a wealthy family in a diverse community, going to schools where there was never The One Thing To Wear, everyone wore different things. My mother never, ever wore designer things - except one time she saw designer shoes she liked for themselves, but she didn't wear them for a few years until they would be out of style and hopefully people wouldn't recognize them. But she also never, ever spoke poorly of people who wore designer clothes, if it came up she just said that wasn't how she liked to dress.

Me and my sisters absorbed this in both ways - now that we are adults (and one of us as a teenager even) we are confident to dress how we want and how makes us happy as individuals regardless of what people around us wear, and we have no desire for designer things or pricey things for the sake of priciness. I don't think lectures, etc. is the right way to inculcate this at all - I think if this is a priority for you, it should be part of the decision of where you will live, what community hashkafa you want to be around, what schools you will send your children to. And as with everything else, most important of all is to role model your values.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 8:55 pm

amother Burlywood wrote:

I also think it’s ridiculously stupid to post all your food and clothing on what’s app. It’s like your showing off and not even hiding it. But that’s not what this thread or the shaming finances thread is about.

What we are taking about is the following:

Op posts - “what kind of outfit should I buy for a 4 year old boy at his uncles wedding?”

Someone responds wirh a link to a $100 outfit. Next person responds that they would NEVER spend a $100 on an outfit for a 4 year old. Someone else defends it. Thread goes downhill from there. Why should someone be shamed because they choose to spend $100 on a baby outfit. And why can’t they post here asking for links? That’s what this site is for !

True story: a few years ago I made my first bar Mitzvah. I went shopping in September for my then 4 year old son because even though the bar mitzvah was in January, the new clothing lines come out in August and I wanted to be able to buy something that I liked. I decided to invite my mom even though I was hesitant to do so. But I went ahead and invited her to make her feel good. At first she was excited and then she said, “I hope you’re not going to buy him a ridiculously expensive outfit. I just can’t stomach it when you spend that much on a baby.” I used all of my self control not to slam down the phone on her. I don’t remember if she came or not. I do remember her comment. Mind your own business. I didn’t ask you to pay for it. P.S. the outfit and shoes cost $350. He wore it once. Don’t like it? That’s just to bad. That’s your own issue, not mine.

NechaMom

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:02 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Am I the only one who really can’t afford these prices but genuinely enjoy to hear that others can? It’s so out of my league but it’s still fascinating for me. I’m really really happy for you with all my heart. If you’d be my daughter I’d LOVE to join that shopping trip! Such fun! Would you be comfortable to post a pic of that outfit? I hope somebody was able to use it after you.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:07 pm

NechaMom wrote:

Of course!! I love posting pictures of him. I’m a little bit obsessed 😍 (the hat was shtick, not part of the outfit lol)

Last edited by mommy3b2c on Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Ruby

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:16 pm

I'm sorry mommy3b2c, I know you're posting under your SN and I'm anon (gave personal info in previous post), but what you are doing now is not ok. Posting that you spent $350 for a four year old is part of the problems we are talking about on this thread and on other threads.

I can't honestly say I don't judge you for spending that much money for a one-time wear for a little stinker, but ideally I'd love to say that, if for you it was worth it, ok, not my cup of tea but I guess that's what you needed to like how he looked. But to come here and post about it with the attitude of "sue me", like I did nothing wrong and I'm not even ashamed to post about it openly, that's a problem. You are trying to normalize or justify to yourself why it makes sense to spend that much money, but a) you're making other people feel bad that they can't do that
and b) it's not tznius to brag about lavish expenditures

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:22 pm

amother Ruby wrote:

Im not bragging. Im making a point. When I post about my old navy sweaters or my beat up mini van is that the opposite of bragging? It’s just facts. If I started a post saying “guess what ? I just spent $350 on my babies outfit, that would maybe be bragging.” ( More like completely random and stupid, but whatever.)

You’re telling me that you’re judging me for doing something wrong. Can I ask what’s wrong about spending that money on his outfit? I would like to hear an actual explanation. If I didn’t mention it, there’s no way to even tell that it was expensive.

Last edited by mommy3b2c on Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

NechaMom

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:22 pm

amother Ruby wrote:

I don’t know about B, but regarding A why are you feeling bad? I really can’t relate.
I probably spend a lot less than 350 for a 4 year old’s entire wardrobe, coat included, but I don’t feel bad that someone else can spend freely.
Why the jealousy! It’s such a sad and miserable middah!

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:26 pm

NechaMom wrote:

I know! Right? One of the aseres hadibros!

And I can’t relate at all. There are many people on this site who post about many things that I wish I can have so badly. I cry because I wish with all my heart that I can have those things. I don’t think I ever felt one ounce of jealousy. I’m so happy that there are others who have what I want . Lucky them. Who knows? Maybe one day Hashem will make a nes and give me those things too.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:30 pm

amother Ruby wrote:

Two more points:
I’m not trying to normalcy or justify anything. In fact, if you don’t have the money for it , I would think you’re not normal if you bought it.

Second, if you’d like to judge me, then go ahead. I won’t judge you for your bad middos. Namely, jealousy. It’s hard and we all have middos we need to work on. And I can’t give myself credit for working on the middah of jealousy. I happen to be lucky, Hashem created me this way. I’ve never been jealous of anyone. I just don’t relate to that concept.

amother

Moccasin

Thu, Jan 26 2023, 9:52 pm

If it makes you happy, nothing wrong with it, even if I wouldn't spend it! I actually think it's really sweet! Your son is adorable, you should have much nachas!

Thanks for your OP, I honestly didn't really understand this concept too well and I like the way you crystallized it. I think that it will help me with my relationship with my preteen. It is more the understanding of where kid is at, like talking "with" the kid rather than "at" them.