The victim mentality of many bothers me- anyone else?

amother

Sapphire

Sat, Jul 15 2023, 9:47 pm

amother Daphne wrote:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Chunk-Light-Tuna-in-Water-5-oz/11965048?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=1349&adid=2222222227711965048_117755028669_12420145346&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=501107745824&wl4=pla-294505072980&wl5=9011979&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=11965048&wl13=1349&veh=sem_LIA&gclid=CjwKCAjwh8mlBhB_EiwAsztdBJeCQg5apPCQEZ3ZQfmGEwT6Y5UPkbnUcyXWVaVEIiuLvS3sz9phoxoCVbMQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

This one? I dont see that it says Bishul Yisroel on it.
and yes, I came to check in Smile

so if you do get to answer, I will ask this first. What are some important homemade ideas you would give to save lots of money verses buying outside ? I am asking for things that it really pays to do so, so either it takes time but it saves a lot on the long run or very easy to make and save a few times the cost of the store but not something that has so many compications and even after that it comes out slightly cheaper than outside..

amother

Hydrangea

Sat, Jul 15 2023, 9:51 pm

amother Daphne wrote:

I guess you didn't read what I said. There are different opinions about which foods are required to be bishul yisroel. Not everyone holds thay canned tuna is required to be bishul yisroel. Walmart tuna is not bishul yisroel. It doesn't mean that people buying it don't keep bishul yisroel.

amother

Daphne

Sat, Jul 15 2023, 10:09 pm

amother Sapphire wrote:

Great question.
I will start by saying that ANY amount saved up adds up a lot!
$5 saved each week is $260
$260 x 10 items = $2600
This goes for all things.. So many ways to save! (& so many ways to spend lol)

Chummus:
WIC = Free chick peas. Canned - I dont soak and cook mine anymore.
Cost is a few dollars less and you get more + tastes amazing

I do not know your shopping list so its hard to say all whats better to make at home.

Challah
Dips - all
no store bought Shabbos food, in general
Skip kishke & marrow bones, Cholent is fine without
Cheese - buy at costco, they have CY sliced and shredded. Freeze half if you go through it slowly
cakes/cookies
Cabbage - buy the shredded if its under $3.

In order to answer you best, post what you buy packaged and ready made.

Time is money too. So you have to figure if you are taking x amount of time off to do x, does it pay.

amother

Iris

Sun, Jul 16 2023, 5:36 pm

amother OP wrote:

Op here coming back just to say: a) this wasn’t about me so no don’t think I need to give a breakdown b) after reading most of the thread (honestly don’t have time for 8 pages worth) I think a lot of people need to ask for scholarships . If you make under 125 your tuition bill shouldn’t be 50k… any school anywhere will give you a scholarship … getting a break isn’t considered getting help- do you consider rebbes kids that go with a massive break getting help? Full tuition is there for who can afford it. And anyone in chinuch is a separate story imo- there are many perks that come with the job so they can technically make a lot less and be fine.
C) frum lifestyle normalizes standard upper class privileges which shouldn’t be the norm unless you’re majorly saving monthly like : cleaning help, spa type treatments (manis, waxings, etc), new clothings seasonally, camp(unless both parents work and even then maybe wife’s job doesn’t even cover all the camp bills so may not make sense to go to work), etc but for some reason people say how do you go on vacation when that is NORMAL for even low middle class in the rest of the world, and doesn’t have to cost a lot at all.
Everyone has their own priorities.
My point wasn’t to judge how people spend their money. Or give a breakdown. It was simply about the victim mentality that people have. If you let’s say make 100k and see people making clearly double always complaining it’s just super annoying.
Like someone earlier said when her family judges her for one little thing but they do a ton she can’t afford it just is very annoying.

The question begs, if you are getting tuition discounts, is it appropriate to go on a vacation?

HonesttoGod

Sun, Jul 16 2023, 5:56 pm

I didn’t read the whole thread so this may have been said already but I’m responding to the OP last post.

In the non Jewish world, their expenses consist of:
Good (cheaper), housing (cheaper), car, and that’s basically it.
School is mostly free. Until college for sure. Food and takeout and restaurants are WAYYY cheaper.
So their 100K a year takes them much further than even a frum household of 2. So of course vacation is NORMAL for them - because they can afford it. (Although if you read Dave Ramsey books you’ll see this isn’t really true but let’s say it is).

As a frum family , tuition breaks are for those that need it. Those that go on an annual vacation but take the breaks, I’m sorry, your priorities are messed up. You cannot tell people to take tuition breaks and go on vacation. Or that cleaning help is a luxury, it’s not.
Vacation is.

And that’s the same around the world. Jewish or not. Going away on a plane boat bus or car, to stay in a hotel or air Bnb and go out to eat or sit on a beach, that’s a luxury.

Paying full tuition is not. It’s mandatory unless you literally don’t have the money.

The frum financial world has so many screwed up ideas it’s actually quite comical. I do agree with you though that standards are very high especially in town.

amother

Denim

Sun, Jul 16 2023, 6:07 pm

HonesttoGod wrote:

I disagree with the passion for paying full tuition.

Schools have never opened their books to us. We have no idea how much the owners are raking in.

There are constantly new government programs which fund more of the school’s expenses in Democrat states. Have you ever heard of tuition being lowered because of that?

In Florida a bill was passed recently which would reimburse parents for a large part of private school tuition. How do you think schools responded? They raised tuition corresponding to the amount the government will be reimbursing parents! I don’t live in Florida so am saying this secondhand based on what people have said on imamother.

As far as your statement that cleaning help is a necessity but vacations are a luxury - lol! You can’t just make a blanket statement about that. Everyone will feel differently about what is a necessity for them. I got rid of my cleaning help because I like cleaning, I find it therapeutic. I haven’t been on a vacation in a few years due to personal circumstances and I’m so sad about it. Traveling revitalizes me. My personality needs it.

amother

Bronze

Sun, Jul 16 2023, 7:33 pm

It's unfair to make blanket statements about ANY luxury. What is a necessity to one is a luxury to another, and vice versa.

But although it is reasonable for everyone to splurge a bit in a few well-chosen areas, it is obviously luxury to splurge extravagantly in multiple areas.

I don't know if there is an easy way to draw the line, but deciding that certain luxuries are okay while others are verboten is problematic. It also doesn't allow for things like families choosing to live in a smaller apartment to be able to afford cleaning help, or scrimping on food to afford nicer clothing.

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 7:48 pm

amother Daphne wrote:

Sorry but getting back late but these were the specific examples.Challah I dont make often but rather once in a while as it does take some time. (and I dont have the fancy machines yet to pay for if it is something you think I should consider and will save long term) Does it pay off to make more often and not buy ? (Besides for the amazing mitzva)Pickles I was thinking of making but not sure if worth itI make homemade yogurt and it really does save me a lotI was thinking of buying a seltzer machine as we dont usually have soda but rather juice , seltzer and water etc... does it pay off ?
I remember eating gefiteh fish balls by someone many years ago and it was absolutuety delicious only that I found out they made it homemade. Is it hard to make and does it pay off ?Cakes I do half and half (also cookies) how much can I save by doing homemade ?
Another thing that often happens with produce is that I buy either too little or too much and I leave it in the fridge forgetting that it's there or when I see it I say not now later (like apples pears peaches etc... cucumbers and some other veg.) and after a while I see it spoiled. How do you decide how much to buy and use it wisely without going to waste ?
As a side thing what do you feel about buying in store vs ordering online in terms of the addiction of online shopping vs getting cheaper online than in store (or is the opposite true?)
Do you use cleaning help or better clean oneself (and I am not talking when you only have 40 dollars)
As a summary the point of my question is if someone has enough money to spend the above but wont put into savings what is the preferred method and as in general how do you decide how much is worth making a savings and how much to spend on luxuries ?

amother

Daphne

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 9:18 pm

amother Sapphire wrote:

Pickles not worth it if you are savvy about where to buy it.
Challah 1000000% worth it - I never had a machine so I cant answer you on that. Its a lot of $$ to invest in one and IMO not worth a cheap one that will break from the load and then youll just be buying again.
Yogurt can be fine store bought yet it is a luxury item. To stretch it, yogurt cups with some other stuff can work. Homemade granola + berries etc.
Seltzer machine is good investment if you drink it often. The flavored seltzers are garbage anyways - just add a bit of real fruit juice and you are set.
Re produce - Dont buy until its used up = youll surely find a use then!
Online can be better because then less or no impulse buys. Store has its perks too.
Cleaning help I never had consistently until a few weeks ago. If I ever had, it was once every few months and for 2 hours. If my sanity needed it.
In recent years I could barely function and could never get to the cleaning so Pesach time I hired a ladyand kept her once a week.
It feels like a luxury yet I was falling apart. No, we dont spend on extras around the house - this was for my mental health as I was really not in a good place.
Savings - First make emergency fund , cover debts, then put away . I havent put away in so many years so I cant ell you much more.

amother

Bronze

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 11:37 pm

Why do you say that Challah is not worth it???

Challah is one of the easiest things to do! It costs $5+ for a single medium loaf of bakery challah. My entire challah recipe, calling for 5lb of flour, costs me less than that, and yields at least 6 large loaves. You don't need a machine, I make it every week by hand and it takes under 10 minutes to make the dough. Have the kids shape it if that part is overwhelming, and put extra challos in the freezer for another week.

Cakes and cookies are also WAY cheaper homemade. If you are very overwhelmed, Duncan Hines cake mix is about $1.50 from Walmart and makes a full 9x13 of cake.

For produce, the best thing I found is to leave a bowl of fruit on the counter. Then it is seen and eaten! Vegetables I sometimes slice and put in containers, they don't rot in the drawers if they're ready to eat.

ora_43

Wed, Jul 19 2023, 2:43 am

amother Maroon wrote:

Regardless, the post was completely out of touch since she clearly doesn't know what TRUE poverty means. Who is she to judge others for being down in the dumps about money, or as she describes "victimizing oneself"- if they don't have money for food for their kids, or basics?
If she can afford vacations, she is certainly not worrying about starving kids or shoes with holes in them. So it's rich of her (mind the pun) to judge, when she clearly cant relate to those who are truly struggling.

I think this is a bit harsh. OP specified that she was talking about people who earn more than she does. So the disconnect wasn't "how can people whine so much about being poor, just, like, eat cake or something, lol" it was more "how can people who earn more than me be poor, if I'm not poor?"

Which is a good question. There are good answers, but the question itself isn't dumb.

ora_43

Wed, Jul 19 2023, 3:05 am

How someone richer can be poorer:

- they live in a higher COL area

- they aren't getting the non-income financial resources you are (tuition breaks, WIC, loans from a gemach, etc)

- they aren't getting non-financial resources that you are (babysitting help from neighbors, emotional support from family, hand-me-downs from relatives, kids having a short summer break, etc) and need to pay for services instead

- they have old debts to pay off

- they are supporting more people than you realize (eg sending money each month to a poor sibling or elderly parent)

- they have unavoidable expenses that you don't (higher property tax, house that needs more repairs, unique dietary needs...)

- they have additional expenses due to having less time (eg if you work 30 hours/week to earn $50,000 and your neighbor works 45 hours/week to earn $55,000, she has more money, but also a lot less time to clean her own floors, bake her own challah, shop for bargains)

- they have unnecessary expenses but don't have the financial knowledge/ general life knowledge to avoid them

- they aren't actually any worse off than you, but they're significantly more anxious about money for personal reasons

ora_43

Wed, Jul 19 2023, 3:42 am

And just because I love examples:

Let's say we have the Levi family and the Cohen family. They live in Israel, because it's easier for me to think in shekels.

Mr. Levi is a manager in a local business, and brings home 13,000 shekels a month after taxes.
Mrs. Levi works a 60% position as a teacher and brings home 6,000/month after taxes.

Mr. Cohen works full-time as a teacher. 10,000/month.
Mrs. Cohen works full-time as a senior member of the sales department in a business one town over. 15,000/month.

So Levi family: 19,000/month
Cohen family: 25,000/month

The Levis bought their house 5 years before the Cohens bought theirs. While the apartments are the same size, prices were a lot higher when the Cohens bought, and their mortgage is 900/month higher.

One of the Cohens' kids needs therapy. It costs 350/week. The Levis have no similar expenses.

Mrs. Levi is home in the afternoon. Neither Cohen parent is home in the afternoon, so they have a babysitter who works 2.5 hours each weekday.

The Cohens' car broke a few months ago. They'd saved some money for a new car, but unfortunately prices were higher than they anticipated due to global shortages. They ended up paying 10,000 more than planned.

The Cohens are now down to 19,000/month too (for this year). If there's even one additional unequal expense - if the Cohen kids are taller and eat a bit more, if the Levis' extended family gives more generously at bar and bat mitzvas, if the Cohens are asked to help pay for grandma's nursing home, if the Levis get a tuition break, etc - then the Levis will actually be better off financially despite earning more than 20% less.

And - this is pretty realistic, yeah? We're not talking about an "an unfortunate series of events" level of bad luck. Just a few minor differences that really add up.