DS kicked out of school

amother

Mayflower

Thu, Sep 14 2023, 6:49 pm

amother Wheat wrote:

It's true that your son may be a lot better than them but they have some skills on their side:

Getting other ppl in trouble for their misbehavior

Covering their tracks

It's unfair but schools aren't perfect and they will punish the obvious kids.

Your child needs to learn not to give into the bullies.

Not to do things that will get him in trouble.

These things are teachable. For most kids. And if not there are professionals that can teach them.

I guess being devious, sly, and manipulative can be considered “skills” but certainly not good ones to want your child to possess. I would rather my child get in trouble and be honest and not try ti deflect, blame, or harm others. The other children have horrible middos (you chose to see as skills) and because OP child thank GD doesn’t possess those ugly traits he will have difficulty in childhood, be bullied, mocked and blamed yet in adulthood which is what really counts your son will be a wonderful husband, employee, friend and father due to his “lack of skills” in being devious, cruel and manipulative. It’s the other kids that need therapy to understand what’s behind their cruel behaviors because if they don’t get help in childhood their adult life will be full of misery. Nobody can have a successful marriage be a good employee, a proper father , friend , spouse or Jew with the “skills” you suggest OPs DS gets help in learning. My son is suffering greatly but I would rather he suffer in childhood from lack of knowing how to conduct himself in a cruel, dishonest , manipulative manner and believe he will have a lot more success in adulthood =real life when it really counts then those kids that have learnt they can bully, lie, manipulate and coerce others and get away with it. Those “skills” that they learnt in their childhood yrs will no doubt harm them tenfold in adulthood if they don’t learn just how damaging and harmful such actions are.

amother

Wheat

Thu, Sep 14 2023, 6:55 pm

amother Mayflower wrote:

Seriously? I didn't say he should learn to be like them!! He needs to learn to protect himself, not get bullied, not do other kids dirty work and not get into the kind of trouble that will make the school want to kick him out. And yes, being able to survive in this world is important. Poor poor kid! Is this any better, that he gets suspended indefinitely?

amother

Aster

Thu, Sep 14 2023, 7:02 pm

amother OP wrote:

They're not offering anything. He has an approval for help in school and the school doesn't want to use it. The school isn't sure what they want at all.

I'm upset but there really isn't another choice of school that fits our family's hashkafa and needs. There is one other and it refused to take him. But that's it, just two.

And bullies need to be dealt with by the school.

You’re acting like you have no options and if the school won’t take your son back, you’ll need to have him home. Meanwhile you do have options but refuse to consider them because you don’t think they’re appropriate hashkafically. I don’t understand this.

amother

Maize

Thu, Sep 14 2023, 7:13 pm

amother Aster wrote:

Yes - I don't understand why someone would sacrifice the mental health and well being of their child to stay on a very narrow hashkafa,

Presumably the other options are still Orthodox - how is it helping the son's Yiddishkeit to keep him in an environment that is rejecting and making him miserable and making him feel "less than".

amother

Mayflower

Thu, Sep 14 2023, 8:22 pm

amother Aster wrote:

Sorry you don’t understand all the considerations and issues that occur when putting a child in public school. I have contemplated it for past 3yrs but refuse to , it’s not an option in my mind nor is it in my DS, he won’t go and I wouldn’t send him. There’s a myriad of issues and challenges that would occur not just for this DS but will create issues for all my kids and entire family. Don’t judge other ppl. You don’t know why they make the choices they do. I know why it’s not an option for my DS regardless of your beliefs you don’t know others lives but it’s not an option for me and if it’s not an option for OP please don’t tell her it is. Believe me if it was an option we wouldn’t be posting about our situation we would just send there.

amother

Mayflower

Thu, Sep 14 2023, 8:32 pm

amother Maize wrote:

How do you know the less orthodox schools are options? In my experience the more modern the school, the less likely they are to accept a child that was expelled elsewhere. Especially a child who is coming from a more right wing environment , as typically the educational standards they are coming from are not up to par (sorry for the generalization but it’s often true) . For my son it wouldn’t be an option even if they would accept him (which they wouldn’t ) it’s not an option because his challenges stem from a language processing disorder which greatly impacts his abilities in limudei kodesh and wouldn’t be able to function in a classroom that is taught in Hebrew which typically is the case in the more modern schools. Don’t judge, you have no clue why OP doesn’t view at as an option there are myriads of reason and considerations it’s not just about one’s hashkafic comfort at least for me it’s not and I don’t think it’s fair for you to decide there are other options and why OP doesn’t see them. I’m pretty confident OP is more desperate to find a solution then posters on here. If OP says there’s no other option then believe her. In her scenario there obviously is no other option. Nobody knows why not or what the considerations are but I can tell you from my own experience there truly are no other options for my DS.

amother

Maize

Thu, Sep 14 2023, 8:48 pm

amother Mayflower wrote:

Based on OP’s statement that hashkafah was a significant factor. I assume if hashkafah was broader there would be schools that would be a better fit for the social and emotional issues

This is OP’s post

I'm upset but there really isn't another choice of school that fits our family's hashkafa and needs. There is one other and it refused to take him. But that's it, just two.

amother

Fri, Sep 15 2023, 1:50 am

I haven't read all the responses yet.

After I closed my computer last night I realized I should have clarified a few things.

1. There is a lot that I'm not telling and don't wish to tell. Yes it's a complicated kid. Yes we are doing what we need to be doing. The school is not doing their part for our kid or to deal with the bullies whose behavior is already criminal.

2. I am not interested in hearing questions or comments or advice for my child or my parenting. Maybe connections would help, but most of you aren't where I am. I mostly posted as a vent. Support is appreciated. Tefillos are appreciated. BTDT empathy and experience are both appreciated. Advice on my child is not. Judgement is also not appreciated.

3. Whether or not this is an expellable offense, however, actually is helpful - I may post separately with more details of what DS has done to get a fuller picture of whether this is really an expellable offense, because if it isn't I have a lot more power. Advice on how to sweet-talk or otherwise convince the staff is also appreciated.

Thanks Smile

Shana tova

amother

Fri, Sep 15 2023, 2:01 am

amother Aster wrote:

There's a lot that I don't want to say.

What matters right now is that getting him into any other school may possibly take several months. Especially if he was expelled. I don't have several months. My mental health tanked during the first round of this saga. I need him in school so that I can put myself back together and put our family back together. I don't have several months to deal with yet more struggles, yet more drains on my time and energy, yet more nightmarish black tunnels where the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of the oncoming train. Somehow I don't think that telling a principal that the child won't have a mother anymore if he isn't in school, will not do much to help convince the principal of anything but that the mother is psycho.

I am thinking of - if the school won't take him back - agreeing to a "peace deal" where the principal gets him into the other school we wanted saying that he was doing well but needs a smaller school and in walking distance. If the principal agrees that stands a good chance. Really DS likes school but doesn't like it when these four kids are there. If the principal agrees that the four are the problem but that two of them can't be expelled for community politics reasons, he might be willing to help DS somewhere else. Though it may be that switching DS to the other class may help.

abound

Fri, Sep 15 2023, 2:07 am

First of all my heart goes out to you and your child in pain.
Come up with a plan. Tell them you are taking him for therapy,/ a psychiatrist to get evaluated. You will pick him up early, or lunch time if thats when he makes the most disturbances.
tell them you will do whatever it takes.

Schools have no real way to deal with bullys, the bullys just get smarter, quieter and more vicious. It is the horrible truth that no one likes to admit. The best way to deal, is to get your child into therapy so that they gain skills not to be on the rcving end of the bully.

Daven! Daven! Daven!

May Hashem grant you peace, nachas and simcha!

amother

Stoneblue

Fri, Sep 15 2023, 2:45 am

amother OP wrote:

I don't actually know what your other options are so I hope this isn't unhelpful or even hurtful. This sounds very difficult. My perspective is from the pov of an older sister who years ago had a younger brother who had a very similar issue. He was suspended because he was bullied into doing something dumb. He was an eager to please boy with known limitations who did what the bullies wanted. Ultimately the school agreed it wasn't his fault, but still refused to take him back unless he took a very specific medication, even though he wasn't even diagnosed with anything. I asked my parents why they couldn't try a program at another totally frum school but less right wing. They refused because of hashkafa. They had to have him in this school with this hashkafah. My parents did what the school said and he finished school there. This wasn't a good thing.

As they had already demonstrated in their reaction, the school was not equipped to address my brother's needs. My brother never got a proper diagnosis and wasn't put into a program to treat his needs. Today, around fifteen years later, he's unfortunately not an independent adult. He never got the training he needed.

None of this was his fault. He was born with limitations. He needed a different school and different training. What good was all that hashkafah when he can't even date, go to work, or commit to learn as an adult? I don't judge him. I feel so bad for him.

I hope you find the right help for you and your son, both for immediately now and the long term. But if his guf (including mental) is not taken care of, the focus on hashkafah can not only be useless but even backfire. Given his age, you have a very small window of opportunity. Men are a billion times less likely to get help than boys who are going because their mother/school sends them. Please make sure he's being treated.

amother

Electricblue

Fri, Sep 15 2023, 8:26 am

amother OP wrote:

Shana tova

How old is DS and what were the papers that he took? Were they tests ? Records? What was the purpose of taking them?

If you believe the suspension was uncalled for, your best bet is to take your son to an experienced expert (therapist). They will give you their professional opinion about the situation. If they believe the school is overreacting, you will then have the recommendation and guidance of an expert that you can bring back to the principal. Also, you can get the advice of a Rabbi. That is more likely to have leverage with the school than other mothers opinions.

There is no such thing as an indefinite suspension. What determines whether or not he will come back? What’s the time frame based on?

amother

Fri, Sep 15 2023, 8:57 am

amother Stoneblue wrote:

You are 100% right and I am angry for your brother that he was forced to take medication that he did not need.

I want to reassure you that we are taking care of all the aspects that you mention and "independent adult" and "good person" are the two top goals.

DS himself is the most rigid about which hashkafa school he is willing to go to. I am more open, DH is on the fence, but DS is very very stuck about "only our chassidus" schools. If we must we will force the matter but it is not something that will be pleasant and I don't believe we should have to force it on him at all - I believe that if he is insistent the system must respect the talmid's desire to learn in a certain type of school.