Fasting on YK and risk of premature labor

amother

White

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 9:58 pm

amother Honeydew wrote:

I think you should call back the rav for clarification. There is nothing wrong with saying you have questions on his psak. Ask him why he is instructing you to fast when your doc said you shouldn't. And see how he explains it and how you feel and then decide if you will ask another rav or go with what he says.

Honestly, if OP comes from Yeshivish, litvish or JPF circles, it's unusual to find any rav who will say to take shiurim in a regular healthy pregnancy.

Only times I've heard of it is when pregnant and nursing at the same time. Or with additional medical issues.

It's not about going against a doctors directive if the doctor would tell anyone pregnant not to fast. The rav was obviously asking in case there were additional medical factors involved, but just her doctor having his own personal view against any pregnant woman fasting, isn't going to change the psak.

And obviously this is just anecdotal evidence, but there are thousands of pregnant women fasting without any problems. BH.

There's no reason to indicate that the rav should give you a special psak different than he gives to anyone else in the same situation as she is.

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 10:04 pm

amother White wrote:

If op is concerned she has all the right to call the rav again and ask for clarification. And maybe her mental state is taken into account. Who knows. Maybe the rav will explain it better to her and she will go into the fast with more peace of mind.

amother

White

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 10:06 pm

amother Honeydew wrote:

Of course she has the right to ask him, was just saying that I don't think it will change anything. And that it isn't called 'Giving a psak against medical advice'. Though yes, maybe can give her more peace of mind.

amother

Tomato

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 10:08 pm

Do you have any particular reason to be concerned about preterm birth? Most women are fine fasting. I personally am at higher risk for preterm birth and BH have never had YK fall out when I was past 20 weeks. If that had been the case, I would have asked a serious shayla. For me it would probably be bad.

But most women are also intimate their entire pregnancies and I abstain for at least my third trimester, since that has triggered preterm birth for me before. But for most women it’s totally fine.

amother

Purple

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 10:13 pm

sara_s wrote:

This may not be statistically proven but I had to go to the emergency room on YK after trying to fast, and the ob/gyn emergency room was picked and the doctors and staff were all in a bad mood about pregnant women fasting. And this was Shaarei Zedek which is a religious hospital. Personally since then I do shiurim on YK when pregnant. I have a feeling that an academic study would show a much higher rate of birth in Israel on YK and Motzai YK.

There is such a study, I read about it in a non Jewish labor book. It proves conclusively that more babies are born between YK afternoon and for the next 24 hours than any other time. But they aren't necessarily preterm. I myself was born motzai YK, but I was a week overdue. I have fasted while in first, and third trimester with no issues.
You hydrate well before, and stay in bed so you aren't burning calories or using up hydration more than necessary.

amother

Watermelon

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 10:15 pm

amother Nasturtium wrote:

Why were you fasting on tzom Gedalia if you're pregnant?!?

Couple of reasons - 1. I usually fast ok normally and I wanted to see a preview of how I'd feel on y"k if there'd be any issues. 2. I knew I didn't "have to" but I find it hard to get part of the sentiment of the day without doing the main avoda- fasting. 2. Drs were fine with me fasting, as I mentioned, so I figured if I didn't feel well I'll call the Rav at that point. Which is what happened...

amother

Nasturtium

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 10:17 pm

amother Watermelon wrote:

Doesn't seem like a smart idea to fast a week before yom kippur. I feel like that's setting yourself up for having to break your fast on yk since it takes the body time to recoup after a fast.

amother

White

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 10:18 pm

Also, another point. My rav always says to stay in bed the entire YK when pregnant. Yes, literally. And better not to daven at all than to break your fast.

People don't realize this. The main mitzvah of the day is to fast. And it's more important than anything else, including the hustand's davening.

Of course, shiurim are there if necessary. But the first step if you're worred is to literally not exert your body for anything at all during the entire day.

(This isn't always feasible when there's kids in the mix, but I'm getting the impression that this is the first pregnancy. Apologies if I'm wrong.)

amother

Watermelon

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 10:20 pm

amother Nasturtium wrote:

Doesn't seem like a smart idea to fast a week before yom kippur. I feel like that's setting yourself up for having to break your fast on yk since it takes the body time to recoup after a fast.

Makes sense, I guess, but when I posed the question to the Dr I said I have two fasts coming up a week apart. I was clear and she still said it's perfectly fine. BH I'm no worse for wear right now.

TBH I am having BH pretty often for the past few weeks, but not regularly like I'd be concerned. Just that I need to relax and drink more.
But that's partially why I do need to talk to my Rav to get clear parameters and advice etc. And I'll try calling the Dr again too.

amother

White

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 10:21 pm

amother Watermelon wrote:

Next time ask a rav beforehand. No rav tells you to fast on tzom gedalia when pregnant. Especially because you have YK a week later. It's not about not having to, I honestly think most (probably all) rabbanim would tell you that you're not allowed to.

(And I'm one whose very much understanding that OP's rav says she needs to fast Yom Kippur. But you can't compare it in any shape or form to tzom gedaliah.)

amother

Pistachio

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 10:29 pm

This is going to be my third pregnancy over YK. The only time I was told to do shiurim was when I was in the hospital for preterm labor the week of YK. Even then my Dr thought I would be fine. However, my Rav wanted me to do shiurim because if I did go south I would have had to eat/drink way more than shiurim which os d'oraisa vs shiurim is only d'rabanan.

amother

Watermelon

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 10:45 pm

amother White wrote:

It's very possible if I'd have asked he may have said don't fast. But, like I said I've fasted many fasts while pregnant and at different points and have done Baruch Hash-em ok. The most I get is a typical headache or tired. Being that I asked my Dr first, I didn't feel it necessary to ask my Rav if I was actually ok with fasting. Until I wasn't (headache)- then I called and asked :-) With Yom Kippur I don't have the lee way to call on the day, so I plan to ask the rav beforehand.

amother

White

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 11:05 pm

amother Watermelon wrote:

Sorry I think my post came out sounding a little patronizing, I didn't mean it to be. I wanted to reword it but it had already been quoted.

It's just probably something to discuss when relevant in future, because with a minor fast, the pregnancy probably overrides it - so it's not about not having to fast, but likely about not supposed to be doing it.

amother

Watermelon

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 11:08 pm

amother White wrote:

No worries, thanks :-)

amother

Peach

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 11:24 pm

I wanted to add that my Rav clearly said (for my unique situation), that I SHOULD NOT listen to my dr. who said I can try fasting. He said not to take a risk on the baby's life. With a different pregnancy my Dr. said don't fast (she never worked with frum Jews before), and he said listen to her. He said be machmir on the baby's life.

Also, to those who think OP has anxiety - I don't know her life, but I can tell you about myself, I work with kids who were born too early so I have a heightened sensitivity to it. It's not anxiety, but seeing what the affects are close up on a weekly basis, changes your perspective. Also, for me personally I feel very very ill when I don't drink and eat, so even in a healthy pregnancy this would cause alarm for me. That's not the same thing as anxiety.

amother

Milk

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 12:12 am

As a thinking person, it shocks me to be reminded that there are women out there who will submit to hunger and risk to the lives of their unborn babies because a man told them to, and it shocks me that men force this on women. I'm not even a feminist. Just a person who can think for themselves. Whatever happened to using your own reason? I don't care what any rabbi says. I will not fast during pregnancy. It's just crazy.

tichellady

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 12:18 am

amother White wrote:

I believe that a Rav should consider the woman’s anxiety and feelings about fasting when discussing this with her. That is all part of the picture. Even if he says she should fast he should explain very clearly how and when to break her fast given that she may feel weak or have contractions etc

amother

Red

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 12:40 am

I am not going to give details, but I am extremely familiar with difficult pregnancies and preterm labor, not just myself, and yet --

1) Yom Kippur is Shabbos Shabbason! I was shocked at the ease at which people said sure...shiurim. Even in a regular pregnancy. Of course, there are times when one must eat or drink on Yom Kippur, but it's not so simple.

2) I have a friend who had very difficult pregnancies and rambunctious boys. She did not live near family. Her Rav said from a halachah standpoint it's better for her to stay in bed all day and her husband should stay home from shul! And he did (except for a few short periods when someone else was able to come).

3) Communication between Rav and doctor is very important. There are Rabbanim and askanim that are particularly skilled at this.

4) Of course, everyone MUST ask THEIR OWN she'eilah and one can never assume that something that applied to someone else applies to them. (This is fundamental always - not just this topic.)

5) Halachically, IV is preferable to actual drinking. But here too, communication between doctor and Rav are important. IV needs a script (not under-the-table arrangement) and there are important reasons why someone may not be a candidate for IV.

6) If someone doesn't have a reason to believe that theirs is a high-risk pregnancy or has a history of preterm labor, it's hard to believe a Rav said they don't have to fast or can automatically do shiurim. As someone else mentioned, pregnant the world over — and for centuries — have done it.

[b]Most importantly, b'ezras Hashem, may everyone stay healthy and have on time and smooth pregnancies, deliveries and recoveries! And every other brachah!

amother

Dustypink

Fri, Sep 22 2023, 1:06 am

tichellady wrote:

Um, no. Breaking a fast on YK is huge. Anxiety and feelings really don't come into play. We are not in a feel-good religion. Agree with the second part of your post though, that he should be explaining how and when to break a fast if it does become necessary.

OP, a regular pregnancy is a natural part of life. It is NOT a risky medical "condition". Hope the fast goes easy for you, and remember what other posters have said (and I know ppl who do this in real life too when pg on yk) and maybe stay in bed all day? It may help you feel better.