I hope the Sprinkles customer reads this!

overthehill

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 6:22 am

Well if we are being "Don Lkaf Zechus", and going with the "perhaps he is mentally ill", then I would have expected his wife to step up and say "im sorry, my husband is not well right now, please excuse his outburst". Nothing was said which leads me to believe that he IS mentally ill- but not due to a sickness. Perhaps his wife is terrified of him as well. If she would have stepped in and apologized, perhaps there would have been He-- to pay after they got home.

amother

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 9:41 am

octopus wrote:

how do you know this guy doesn't have mental health issues? tourettes? It's a horrible feeling to be cursed out like that (it shakes you up!) however, as a frum person, you have to think, "well, that guy MUST have mental health issues if he can talk like that." and it's not just the potty mouth, it's the whole scenario- his reaction is way over the top. He MUST have mental health issues.

I think this post besmirches the people with mental health issues who have WONDERFUL middos and would NEVER speak to someone like that.

amother

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 9:43 am

overthehill wrote:

If he would be mentally ill, his wife does not owe an explanation. She is not responsible for his behavior and does not have to make excuses for it.

overthehill

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 9:57 am

amother wrote:

overthehill wrote:

If he would be mentally ill, his wife does not owe an explanation. She is not responsible for his behavior and does not have to make excuses for it.

No one owes anyone an explanation but it surely would be the right thing to do if the womans DH cursed out an innocent bystander.

paprika

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 10:10 am

overthehill wrote:

amother wrote:

overthehill wrote:

If he would be mentally ill, his wife does not owe an explanation. She is not responsible for his behavior and does not have to make excuses for it.

No one owes anyone an explanation but it surely would be the right thing to do if the womans DH cursed out an innocent bystander.

I totally disagree. The woman does not have to explain to every stranger on the street that her husband has mental issues. Her responsibility is her family, and not everybody else's feelings.

sima

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 10:12 am

Mental issues?? no probably not, let's not blame everything on mental issues and over ascribe that. People need to take responsibility for their actions, which in this case were horrendous, and a complete chilul H". That would really turn me off. But just like has been said, unfortunately there are rotten apples everywhere, and I'm sure this does not represent BP. I do have to say though, I've lived in BP, and I've had some of the most amazing experiences there in my life where I've met real baalei mitzvos, really really wonderful people and then the opposite extreme unfortunately as well. People there and everywhere really need to teach their children good manners. It starts early..

amother

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 10:16 am

overthehill wrote:

amother wrote:

overthehill wrote:

If he would be mentally ill, his wife does not owe an explanation. She is not responsible for his behavior and does not have to make excuses for it.

No one owes anyone an explanation but it surely would be the right thing to do if the womans DH cursed out an innocent bystander.

No it's not. She has absolutely nothing to do with her DH's behavior. She should no more say anything of the sort than another woman.

paprika

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 10:17 am

Tova wrote:

I'm not sure it's a chiyuv to judge a "stam" person (a beinoni - someone you don't know to be a tzaddik) favoriably although it'may be a praiseworthy thing to do.

I would be upset also, for MY EARS and more importantly my kids' ears to have to hear such unkavod'ik behavior (that's what I tell my kids all the time - we have to talk and act with kavod).

We are not always dan l'kaf zchus because we have to. We do it because menchlichkeit deems it necessary. If a person behaves in a mentally disturbed way, we don't call him rude, but rather assume that he's mentally disturbed.

Perhaps it's time to teach your kids the reality of life. There are mentally disturbed people out there, and just because our eyes see them and our ears hear them, we don't have to behave the same way.

amother

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 10:31 am

paprika wrote:

Tova wrote:

No. There are people out there with MIDDOS ISSUES who behave with bad Middos. There are plenty of mentally disturbed people who behave with middos - who are gentle and kind, but have mental disturbances. It's unfair to tar them with the same brush as people with bad middos.

Tova

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 10:37 am

paprika wrote:

Tova wrote:

I was responding to the poster who said we are OBLIGATED to judge favorably. My post was quoted out of context.

But no - if I am ever in such a situation and my children hear such a way of talking I would ensure to tell that that it is not a kavod'ik way of speaking. My children's chinuch comes before excusing someone else's behavior.

paprika

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 10:40 am

Tova wrote:

paprika wrote:

Tova wrote:

amother

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 1:44 pm

bubby wrote:

The woman yelled at her "it's one big line!" and her saintly husband, about 30 years old with one child, stopped his wife from yelling more at DD & instead, HE yelled at her to "get the F*** to the back of the line!" at the top of his voice.

The wife, a young woman wearing a sheitel, just let her husband speak to another woman like that.
I bet he makes a Chillul Hashem wherever he goes...and it sounds like his wife is no better.

A marriage made in hell.
DD just saw me type this & made sure I got the details right, so please don't say there must be more to it.

I am not the person that this is directed to. however, my husband often uses language like that, which bothers me tremendously. he does things which get me upset, as well as other people upset. however, sometimes talking to him is like talking to a wall. people get upset at me over things that my husband did, when in fact I'm also not happy that my husband did it. my husband sometimes uses dirty language when he speaks to me. my husband sometimes scares me.
perhaps she was too scared of him to reproach him. or perhaps she knows it won't do anything.

abound

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 2:11 pm

Or perhaps he is in a terrible stage. He lost his job. His wife is mad and lost respect for him she said he is a pushover and does not act like a man. she won't go to the mik. He lost a parent or someone that he loves recently. His house is in foreclosure. He had many people cutting the line on him recently and lost it with your daugher. Was it right?= No. Do people lose themselves and say terrible things- yes! DO I hope never to lose myself in this way- I can't imagine that I would.
Do remember that being Dan lekaf zechus in a way means not judging. You have no idea where this person is coming from and judging him ain't gonna make what happened better. It definitely won't make you a better person.

bubby

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 4:49 pm

amother wrote:

bubby wrote:

They deserve each other, they're both cast from the same mold. She didn't have to get him going! Rolling Eyes

amother

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 5:47 pm

Hi! I'm Bubby's DD- I was one of the DD's involved here.

1. The wife was just as rude as the DH. She was the 1st to respond rudely. Anyone would've thought we'd cut in front of them, or yelled at them or been annoying & asking too many questions. We only asked where the line ended & were there 2 lines or 1?

2. Octopus - I'm a huge fan of dan lekaf zchus, believe me, but this guy was not at all mentally challenged or mentally ill etc. They were a well dressed, put together, normal, but rude couple & as someone said, "If he was ill, his wife could've apologized for him. Maybe they had just had a fight with each other or someone else or something bad had happened but we all have bad days. You need to get up & put it aside & be civil & polite. A minute after he cursed us out, another man asked us where the line was. We were so nice to him & told him that we were trying to figure out the same thing!

3. The name of the store is just a minor detail. No problems with the workers or owners. I see no lashon hara at all here. We love going there. My mother just happened to mention it in passing & to see if perhaps the rude wife is a member here.

octopus

Mon, Jun 20 2011, 7:19 pm

auntie_em wrote:

FTR- Tourette's does not cause this type of profane outburst.

it most certainly does. it is called coprolalia. not everyone with tourettes has it. but some do. also if someone's dh has certain mental health issues, a wife certainly need not go advertising and apologizing about it. maybe you guys should read the column "behind the chair" by ann novick in the Jewish press.

there are wonderful mentally ill ppl that have beautiful middos. but ppl should be aware that there are those that look 100% "normal", are not cognitively impaired, but DO have psychiatric, neurological, or mental health issues and are on medication. Some ppl are not so socially "with it" and may fall somewhere on the autistic spectrum. And while some of this population may be wonderful, aidel, and have great middos, there are those that cannot control certain things. My dh came home a few weeks ago about the rudest guy in shul and went on about three separate occasions about this guy's rudeness. from what my dh was telling me, I told my dh I wouldn't be surprised if this guy had some sort of aspergeres syndrome. his behavior was not rude. it was beyond social norms. on all occasions. I have seen at the park when parents get all huffy at a child that has social issues that are apparent to me but not necessarily to those who are not in the field or those who have actual experience with it (through family or the like).

Rude is rude. I don't apologize for others' rude behavior. I'm not naive and I'm not dan l'kaf zechus everyone who is rude. However, when behavior is bizarre or super over the top and uncalled for, my radar starts buzzing. that's all.

Last edited by octopus on Mon, Jun 20 2011, 7:26 pm; edited 2 times in total