Totally OUt of Control

Sun, Sep 19 2004, 11:15 pm

Today was not a good day - I felt like I had no control over my little "angels" - I try not to threaten or scream, but when no one is listening to me, I just lose it. Does anyone have any good advice on how to get control back in my house - I know I would be much happier and I'm sure my kids would be too.

proudmom

Sun, Sep 19 2004, 11:27 pm

There is 2 different motivational personalities one responds to fear and the other responds to rewards. First recognize your childs motivation. Once recognize use the above motivational approach. With me my daughter she is motivated by fear. That is the type of motivation I use for my daughter.

proudmom

Mon, Sep 20 2004, 12:18 am

I know that she doesnt like dogs in the house. so what I tell her is if she doesnt do so and so I will bring the dogs into the house. If she sees a dog in the street she isnt scared of it at all. She doesnt like them in the house. My daughter is 3 years old. The reason for being up so late my baby is 3 months old and she keeps me up.

BelovedBird

Mon, Sep 20 2004, 11:18 am

proudmom wrote:

It is actually mentioned in the sefer "chinuch habanim limitzvos" by Rav Y. Neuwirth, *not* to threaten a child "bidavar tumay", the example given is actually a cat or a dog.

Our children are kadosh neshamos. We must treat them this way.

I do not believe that fear should be a primary motivator in chinuch. How are you going top parent when she gets older and is just as big as you? Have you ever heard of or tried natural and logical consequences?

proudmom

Mon, Sep 20 2004, 11:37 am

I have tried everything and nothing works. I tried positive reinforcement and it doesnt work, I tell her if she doesnt listen she will have to go into her room doesnt work and the only thing that works is what I mentioned above. If you think of anything that I can do please let me know

Mon, Sep 20 2004, 12:05 pm

Sounds like a pretty touchy subject (pardon the pun). My biggest problem is that I'm often too tired to think straight in order to respond positively. I am in the process of trying to make a "new" chart for each kid with appropriate rewards built in. Unfortunately I get easily distracted and only do half a job. My kids suffer from an inconsistent mommy - number one no no in the parenting department. If anyone has a good motivating chart, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks

BelovedBird

Mon, Sep 20 2004, 3:50 pm

First of all, I am no parening expert, I am not even a particularly excellent parent. Parenting is HARD work. Parenting teaches you alot, as life is a constant ;earning experience so is parenting. Everyone makes mistakes and figures out how things work better. I have learned alot and I plan on continuing to learn....

Proudmom, when you say you "tried everything" and "nothing works", its not that I am doubting you, but, how old is the child you are talking about? What are you trying to accomplish? You have to realize that when you are parenting a child you are not only working for the immediate. You are working on forming a relationship that will carry you through the rough times - still to come- the teen years. A 3 year old, although frustrating, is child's play compared to dealing with an older child, of your 3 year old's same termperment.

I have more to say, but I suggest you do some reading online:

http://www.positivediscipline.......html

http://joanneaz_2.tripod.com/p......html

http://joanneaz_2.tripod.com/p......html

Motek

Mon, Sep 20 2004, 5:00 pm

some comments on previous posts:

Quote:

There is 2 different motivational personalities one responds to fear and the other responds to rewards. First recognize your childs motivation. Once recognize use the above motivational approach.

oy!

how about neither?

how about being a parent who knows (or figures out) what you want from your children, checking to see if it's age-appropriate, and then, using one's G-d given parental authority, making it happen? Not with threats, not with bribes. But because Mommy said so. Not that Mommy has to say "because Mommy said so" necessarily, but to project that message to your children.

Simultaneously (with letting them know you're the Authority), how about developing the kind of parent-child relationship in which the children naturally want to listen to you? Yes, children can be rambunctious and mischievous, but overall, children want their parents' approval!

as far as the dog threat - in addition to dogs not being tahor, that threat is ... terrible! (sorry Crying

) It's like those parents (perhaps European) who threaten, "the policeman will get you". Parents ought to PROTECT their children. Children look to their parents for security and protection!

as far as charts ... if you're not going to follow through with them, it's better not to start them
I don't go for them myself.

micki

Mon, Sep 20 2004, 6:38 pm

you know parenting is challenging. motek you are on the money. in my house you pick up the toys becuase I said so. my oldest is an angel and listens to EVERYTHING I say, sometimes I wish she'd rebel a little... Confused

my 4 yr old is another story- when I say clean up the toys, liba runs to do it- and rosie says I don wanna. so I give them specific jobs- you pick up the lego, you the dolls. this make the task easier and they know they have to do that job. if she still refuses, then I tell her that these are the rules in this house. if she wants to live here she has to follow those rules- maybe she can check if her friends mommy doesn't make them pic up toys and maybe she can live there? she then usually runs.
I never threaten (cause I ususally can't follow thru) and I have no charts. they do it because I say so. my 3 yr old is another story too. he is a tough one and some days I lose control. it is very tiring, and especially if I have no koach to deal with it. so as long as I am consistant- if you hit him again, then you sit in time out- then he knows I am actually gonna follow thru- he tests me several times and I follow thru. but it is tiring.
proudmom- I don't think its fair to prey on your childs fears. I remember once seeing my sis in law telling her kid that if he eats too much sugar then the blood will pour out of every hole in his body and he will have no blood left. I was disgusted. the kid is pretty messed up and no longer believes anything his mother says. make sure not to lose that trust with lies.

BelovedBird

Mon, Sep 20 2004, 7:12 pm

proudmom wrote:

Motek let me ask you. If you ask your child to pick up the toys off the floor and she doesnt listen what will you do inorder for her to do it?

I'm not motek, but it seems my previous post was ignored;)
First you decide if this is a "battle" you want or need to "fight". Then you decide on the most likely way to get what you need to happen. This will not be effortless on your part. The first suggestion would be to make it a game. I pick up one you pick up one. Lets be airplanes and pick up the toys and fly them to their box. I'm going to use the broom to push them into a pile, then we will put them in the box together, etc. With a bit of creativity the options are many.

proud, I really think it would be good to read up on positive methods of discipline.

mommy2

Mon, Sep 20 2004, 8:49 pm

Beloved Bird, I am very much with you on positive parenting and natural consequences. Its not always the easy way out to discipline that way but it has far better results. B/c I said so... doesnt work. I try to explain the reason behind what I am asking them to do. For example, I want them to to eat their supper b/c it will make them strong and healthy. When cleaning up the toys, give choices which toy u'll help them clean up........ and creativity like u said work very well.

Motek

Mon, Sep 20 2004, 9:49 pm

Quote:

If you ask your child to pick up the toys off the floor and she doesnt listen what will you do in order for her to do it?

it helps if you establish what you want, very early on, so you don't have to undo negative patterns

if your child isn't listening to you when you say it's time to pick up the toys, then the pattern of "clean up time after playing" wasn't established (not to mention the general problem of not listening to mommy)

take heart, it's not too late!

your goal should be to firmly convey the message that after playtime is cleanup time
maybe you have to say, if Mommy cleans up the toys then those toys disappear ... if that doesn't get her to move, then FOLLOW THROUGH without additional warnings and the toy(s) disappear for some time

there's also the rule of not taking out another toy before the previous mess is cleaned up

about giving reasons - I think that's a separate discussion which I will start

proudmom

Mon, Sep 20 2004, 11:07 pm

QUOTE: your goal should be to firmly convey the message that after playtime is cleanup time
maybe you have to say, if Mommy cleans up the toys then those toys disappear ... if that doesn't get her to move, then FOLLOW THROUGH without additional warnings and the toy(s) disappear for some time.

I do something simillair to that. I tell my daughter if you dont clean up I will throw your toys in the garbage and she tells me ok. now what? Listen I got a tough girl to deal with

proudmom

Mon, Sep 20 2004, 11:12 pm

Quote:

Not with threats, not with bribes.

Quote:

your goal should be to firmly convey the message that after playtime is cleanup time
maybe you have to say, if Mommy cleans up the toys then those toys disappear ... if that doesn't get her to move, then FOLLOW THROUGH without additional warnings and the toy(s) disappear for some time

Motek please explain I need clear direction

Motek

Tue, Sep 21 2004, 9:00 am

Quote:

I do something similar to that. I tell my daughter if you dont clean up I will throw your toys in the garbage and she tells me ok. now what?

is it similar?
do you really intend on throwing out toys that you spent money on, into the garbage?
obviously not, which is why your daughter says "ok"
she knows you're not serious

It's time to follow through on those things which you've decided are important.

If you think it's important that she clean up, but you have yet to train her to listen to you, what consequence are you willing to live with and follow up on?

Surely, you don't want to throw her toys away. But you can certainly "make them disappear" by removing them from her and putting them in a place where she has no access. And you tell her, if Mommy cleans up your toys, then you won't have those toys to play with. If she says "ok" ignore that. It will definitely not be ok to her when she loses her toys one by one.

Do it with one toy. Say, "Mommy cleaned up the x and now you don't have it anymore to play with. Will you clean up the y now? If she says no, then you take y and put it away too. She will definitely test you, since you have proven to her that you don't follow through. THIS TIME, FOLLOW THROUGH.

If you post what happened, we can offer advice as to what to do next.

How long should the toys stay away? Depends ... let us know what happens. I don't want to sit and type up responses to scenarios until they happen.