Akeres Habayis- Vaccines- Who's speaking???

chaiz

Mon, Feb 15 2016, 5:02 pm

5*Mom wrote:

From the admittedly little that I have read about TB, it appears to be a complex disease and the BCG vaccine is only about 60% effective at preventing infection-to-disease progression, but even less effective at preventing infection.

It seems we have an easier time dealing with viral infections than bacterial infections. But still, there are vaccinations against some bacterial infections that seem to have success. I wonder what makes bacterial infections so much harder than viral. I am just wondering aloud here.
I admittedly have not that much education in biology beyond high school.

jaylee

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 11:01 am

sorry guys didn't realize this thread was a year old and that it was such heated situation. new here and was just reading some posts. didnt mean to open a new/old can of worms

and about the vaccine topic I really think ALOT more emunah and bitachon is needed here and no matter what your hishtadlus is whether vaccinating or not vaccinating we really have to remember that NO MATTER what we do HASHEM runs this world and we a JUST doing Hishtadlus. Hashem can bring illness or wellness to both the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike!

I am perfectly ok with people vaccinating - that is their hishtadlus and that is the correct thing to do
and I am also perfectly ok with people not vaccinating as that is their Hishtadlus and for them that is the correct thing to do.

we really have to have a little more respect for both sides of this argument and realize that WE cant control anything and that we can't judge someone who doesn't vaccinate and spew all kinds of hate and venom that they are doing to most horrible thing in the world.
you can't judge someone unless you are standing in their shoes. please realize that someone who doesn't vaccinate did research and really looked into it. it is very difficult to go against what everyone else is doing and have the whole world against you and think you are nuts.

on another note Akeres Habayis now has a new section that I just started listening to and am really excited about.
right now it is free but in the future will be by subscription only and very cheap to sign up.

when you call 732-806-8533 then press 3 for the new HOME AND HEART SECTION
Perl abramowitz is giving a live question answer series on monday nights at 9:30 where you can ask any parenting question live.
I just her parenting workshop and thought she was fantastic!!

and Dina Friedman is giving an empowerment series on there that should be amazing.

there are other sections in there that you may be interested in like comedy and homemaking

no I don't work for them and are not affiliated with them, but am so excited about it that I had to share.

5*Mom

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 11:38 am

chaiz wrote:

So I thought there had to be a simple scientific explanation for why vaccination is used mostly to prevent viral, as opposed to bacterial illnesses, but after reading for a while I haven't found it, and it appears, at least to me, to be more complex. Again, I'd love to hear from vaccinologist amother.

dancingqueen

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 12:01 pm

chaiz wrote:

It's actually the opposite. We have an easier time dealing with bacterial infections since they are separate entities that have features we can target with antibiotics (cell walls etc). Now we have a problem with antibiotic resistance but that's a different story. Viruses are just packages that replicate themselves by incorporating into and using our cells to replicate - they are much less complex of an organism but makes them harder to treat and more effective to target preventively.

chaiz

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 12:13 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Firstly, I was referring to effective vaccinations for bacterial infections. And I would not say antibiotic resistant bacteria are a whole separate story. I think they are part of the story.

amother

Ruby

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 12:33 pm

jaylee wrote:

What exactly is akeres habayis? Its parenting or its about vaccines? A 212 number was listed before and now you give a 732 number. Is it the same thing?

5*Mom

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 12:43 pm

chaiz wrote:

And I would not say antibiotic resistant bacteria are a whole separate story. I think they are part of the story.

The first link I posted just before would seem to support this. Bacteria have thousands of genes and are therefore less stable and much more likely to mutate --> abx-resistance. That also makes effective bacterial vaccine development more challenging than viral vaccine development.

jaylee

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 12:53 pm

I am new here so I don't know how to put your comment in my reply
but to amother who asked what akeres habayis is:

it is a hotline for jewish women that just happens to have one section out of about 100 that discusses vaccines (under the health section, special needs etc)

the rest is very interesting speakers on all kinds of topics: just to name a few of my faves

Shavy Grossberg talking about all different self improvement topics.
perl abramowitz: answering parenting questions - very insightful - really learned alot
dr yael respler: answering shalom bayis questions ; entertaining and interesting
comedy by marion fine and ayelet the kosher comic ; entertaining
malky tauber - who sells shaklee vitamins - answering health questions - she seems very knowlegable
and there really is a lot more on there to listen to
they have local numbers in alot of locations, I gave you the lakewood number. all the same though.

chaiz

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 1:19 pm

5*Mom wrote:

Right. But I am not sure that explains the challenge with pertussis.
But, yay! We are having an intelligent conversation about vaccines.

chaiz

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 3:55 pm

To clarify, you brought up the vaccine for TB and explained its effectiveness rate. So my train of thought started going in the direction of other vaccines that I know are challenging and though of pertussis, which from my understanding is a bacterium. So I thought I wrote stuff that are of a general nature regarding vaccines against bacterial infections. For some reason I am afraid I am not being clear. embarrassed

dancingqueen

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 3:56 pm

5*Mom wrote:

Its not just about having more genes. Viruses can mutate too since they also contain genetic material- that's why there are new flu vaccines every year.

Its easier to treat bacterial infections because they are more complex living organisms that replicate on their own, so we can target antibiotics to the parts of the bacterial cell that are different than ours. Viruses cannot replicate on their own, they need to use use our cellular mechanisms to replicate so they are harder to target with anti-virals (though we do have some.) Because its harder to fight viruses once they've invaded its usually easier to use a vaccine to teach the immune system to recognize and destroy viruses preemptively.

amother

Natural

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 3:59 pm

Laughing Bag! wrote:

I know her not personally but have spoken to her a couple of times on the phone. I would not announce her name on a public forum though.
She was extremely pro vax until of her kids were vaccine injured and slowly as she was trying to help her kids, and found info pointing to vaccines as the cause of ber problems she has become very anti vax. She has done lots of research on the topic and on many other topics related to the issues she had with her kids. She has done some courses in health and healing techniques and has taken it upon herself to help others. The conferences are free of charge and lots of natural health advice is shared by her and the listeners.

"Vaccine injury" happens one time in a million. This woman is insane, and correlation isn't causation.

Maybe

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 4:12 pm

amother wrote:

"Vaccine injury" happens one time in a million. This woman is insane, and correlation isn't causation.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/ar.....06452

http://www.nvic.org/vaccinatio......aspx

Former FDA Commissioner David Kessler, wrote in the Journal of the American Medical Association, that “only about 1% of serious adverse events are reported to the FDA.”

http://www.theatlantic.com/hea.....2864/

According to Mark Largent, a professor at Michigan State University , 40 percent of American parents have either refused or delayed a recommended vaccine for one of their kids.

On average, immunization opponents are relatively well-educated, upper middle class, Protestant, and married.

Last edited by Maybe on Tue, Feb 16 2016, 4:26 pm; edited 3 times in total