Trump is a sick egotistical and dangerous maniac!

Sadie

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:11 pm

Heyaaa wrote:

So seriously sanders entire complaint (and yours) is about 400 people? He wants to raise the taxes of all the millions of one percenters because of 400 people who pay a really low percent of taxes?
The average one percenters pays between 39-46% of their income on taxes every year. It's only these 400 or so people who get away with less. Raising the taxes on the remaining millions of people in that category won't get those 400 people to pay more.

1) No, the entire complaint is not 400 people.
2) 400 one percenters represent billions of lost tax dollars
3) Many of the worst offenders are not individuals at all but large corporations.

wondergirl

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:20 pm

marina wrote:

Hey, I'm an immigrant. I came with my parents when I was young. My parents came legally and worked hard and passed the citizenship test and learned English and moved up in society.

And every time - every single time- that I read about illegal aliens who come here risking their very freedom and lives, I think: There but for the grace of God go I.

Because, see wondergirl, there's literally nothing I did to be born into my family which was lucky enough to have a well-off American relative who helped us leave and supported us when we came. I did nothing to attain this. I could have easily been born into a family where even the cost of the initial INS application is beyond our reach, forever. I easily could have been born into a situation where emigrating legally is impossible. And so could you.

I think people on this website and in many other places have no idea of the basic realities of immigration.

Do you know that there are places where people would have to save all their money for decades - and spend literally nothing - to even hope to be able to pay the INS application fee?

Do you know how many people the USA admits from particular countries?

Do you know that the US has quotas, so even if you have the means to immigrate legally, you still can't? Do you know how many millions of people are waiting to be allowed entry even though they literally have a family member willing to sponsor them, so they are 100% legal?

Do you know that many people, even those who do not live in danger of persecution, live in abject poverty and illness with no hope for a better life for their children unless those children are smuggled here illegally and even then you have to hope and pray that they are not being s-xually trafficked?

Do you know how beneficial illegal immigrants are for America? How many billions of dollars we would lose per state (!) if they all disappeared tomorrow?

I am not sure what your point is. My parents are immigrants who were not lucky to have family in America to sponsor them. And they came from a country where there were quotas (and gangs or whatever other excuses people use) as well but still made it. Sure it took a long time but they still did it legally. So if they were able to do it without breaking the law then others can as well.

Would America lose billions of dollars if they disappeared tomorrow? I don't believe that at all. Mostly because because illegal immigrants don't work legally and send as much money out of the country as possible to support their families in their country of origin. Plus, they are a burden on the school system as well who may be forced to pay for esl classes and/or tutors or have bigger classes, etc which is coming out of taxpayers pockets as well. And if the illegal aliens don't have health insurance then they go to the emergency room which they don't pay so the burden falls on the taxpayers yet again, etc. Some states even offer free lawyers to illegal aliens (and other benefits such as financial aid for college) which costs a ton of money as well.

I also don't believe that we would lose billions of dollars either because we have excellent revenue from tourists who pay taxes as well and from foreign exchange students who pay a fortune every year for the privilege of being educated in American colleges, etc.

marina

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:27 pm

Here's a fun immigration game. Pretend you are an impoverished family in Guatemala. It's you and your three children, because your husband was killed. You have no relatives in America, you have no employer interested in sponsoring you, you have no money, and you cannot prove persecution based on your ethnicity. You want to come to America because it is dangerous where you live and you want a better life for your children.

Go ahead and map out how you would legally come to America. With details: What form would you fill out? How much would it cost? How long would you have to wait?

Here's a website to help you get started, not that you'd necessarily have access to this website in Guatemala. https://www.uscis.gov

If you want to skip all this research, the answer is that you could not come and neither could your children. Legally there is no way for you to immigrate.

But hey, wondergirl's parents were able to do it many years ago! So should you! Keep trying. There is literally no form for you to even fill out. But keep trying.

Sadie

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:32 pm

marina wrote:

Beautifully said.

marina

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:34 pm

wondergirl wrote:

It's not a matter of believing or not believing. It's a matter of doing research. Or just basic googling. Illegal immigrants pay state sales tax, as well as often paying regular tax as well. They often pay into the social security system and do not take out.

http://www.businessinsider.com.....012-1

http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/2.....yths/

https://www.aclu.org/immigrati.....facts

Amarante

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:43 pm

tigerwife wrote:

Amarante, I think one factor we aren't talking about here is state population. How big are the populations those states that don't have health care and decent public schooling? Looks like NY is the place to live. Besides for FAFSA, they offer TAP to those who can't get the first. Public schools abound and on top of that there are numerous state-funded special education programs. There is Medicaid, Food Stamps, even programs that subsidize your cell phone for you. Definitely the place for the poor to live- since there are hundreds of thousands of citizens there that pay taxes to cover it.

You are kind of making my point for me. LOL

New York is probably the bluest of the blue states and viewed as a hotbed of GASP liberal ideals and politicians.

If you live in a Red State which deliberately chose to not expand Medicaid - you're out of luck in terms of health care unless you are admitted to the ER. And then you would be hit with a huge medical bill that would haunt you for years.

And even Medicaid isn't ideal as a health care provider in many areas because so few providers accept it. It doesn't seem to be a problem in some pockets of NY - probably because there is such a high percentage of people with Medicaid that opening a practice would be difficult unless one accepted Medicaid but outside these areas, this isn't true - especially if one needs a specialist.

Republicans want to wipe out and defund ALL of these programs. Examine closely their plans to raise the age of eligibility; fiddle with COL and "privatize" the programs. Especially heinous is their idea of "vouchers" in lieu of Medicare so that you would be able to purchase health insurance instead of receiving Medicare. As IF anyone would prefer private insurance to the easy inexpensive Medicare benefits available currently.

ETA - Republicans fought tooth and nail against enacting Medicare and Social Security. - Reagan famously recorded a polemic warning against it.

Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine is a 1961 LP featuring Ronald Reagan. In this more than ten-minute recording, Reagan "criticized Social Security for supplanting private savings and warned that subsidized medicine would curtail Americans' freedom" and that "pretty soon your son won't decide when he's in school, where he will go or what he will do for a living. He will wait for the government to tell him."[1] Roger Lowenstein called the LP part of a "stealth program" conducted by the American Medical Association (see Operation Coffee Cup).[1]

wondergirl

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:47 pm

marina wrote:

Here is another fun game. Pretend that you are an impoverished family living in New York. The rents are high, food is expensive, tuition is free if you send to public school but resources are limited, classes are huge and half the kids need special attention because they don't speak english which causes all the kids to learn at a slower pace. One kid is sick but you don't have health insurance because you make a few more dollars than the eligibility cutoff point, which means you don't qualify for food stamps or welfare either, there is no section 8 etc. Your husband is in prison for breaking some law that he didn't mean to break but this is America, no one cares. So you have some kind of income but that has to cover rent, utilities, food, clothing, dr. dentist, babysitter, transportation, etc. Your income is not enough so you fall behind on rent and now the landlord is taking you to court to evict you. You try to get a pro-bono lawyer because you can't afford to pay one but there are no pro-bono lawyers available. You don't have the money you owe for rent so the judge evicts you. You are now homeless and forced to go live in a shelter. The shelter is horrible, people are fighting and screaming all day long and you want to get out but have no way to get to work so you lose your job. There is also a long line of people who are there before you so if there are any housing vouchers or even apartments that accept them then they will get it first which means that you are going to be in the shelter for a while with your kids with no way out. I guess the "good" part is that you now qualify for food stamps and health insurance so there is an upside to all of this.
But hey, if you are having trouble in your country then come on over to America because America is perfect. We have no gangs, everyone is housed, fed, educated, and given a job here and we all live happily ever after.

Last edited by wondergirl on Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

Sadie

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:49 pm

wondergirl wrote:

Here is another fun game. Pretend that you are an impoverished family living in New York. The rents are high, food is expensive, tuition is free if you send to public school but resources are limited, classes are huge and half the kids need special attention because they don't speak english which causes all the kids to learn at a slower pace. One kid is sick but you don't have health insurance because you make a few more dollars than the eligibility cutoff point, which means you don't qualify for food stamps or welfare either, there is no section 8 etc. Your husband is in prison for breaking some law that he didn't mean to break but this is America, no one cares. So you have some kind of income but that has to cover rent, utilities, food, clothing, dr. dentist, babysitter, transportation, etc. Your income is not enough so you fall behind on rent and now the landlord is taking you to court to evict you. You try to get a pro-bono lawyer because you can't afford to pay one but there are no pro-bono lawyers available. You don't have the money you owe for rent so the judge evicts you. You are now homeless and forced to go live in a shelter. The shelter is horrible, people are fighting and screaming all day long and you want to get out but have no way to get to work so you lose your job. There is also a long line of people who are there before you so if there are any housing vouchers or even apartments that accept them then they will get it first which means that you are going to be in the shelter for a while with your kids with no way out. I guess the "good" part is that you now qualify for food stamps and health insurance so there is a downside to all of this.
But hey, if you are having trouble in your country then come on over to America because America is perfect. We have no gangs, everyone is housed, fed, educated, and given a job here and we all live happily ever after.

The person in your fun game shouldn't vote for Trump.

wondergirl

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:57 pm

Sadie wrote:

The person in your fun game shouldn't vote for Trump.

I am not so sure about that either. Because if there wouldn't be illegal aliens then maybe the person in my fun game would have gotten a pro-bono lawyer who could have helped her stay in her apartment. Or maybe the rents wouldn't be so high to begin with. Or maybe no one would be imprisoned for breaking the laws either. Maybe there would be better jobs for people. And maybe there wouldn't be such high taxes because there would be less kids in school which also means that the kids may get a better education as a result since there would be more resources etc. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

I don't know if Trump has what it takes to change America but I am not sure if any of the other candidates have what it takes either. I guess it's time for Mashiach to come, I think that he would be the best candidate for president. And just maybe, he can fix the entire world while he is at it.

Sadie

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 3:02 pm

wondergirl wrote:

Ha okay I get it, this is all an elaborate trolling, a satire on Trump's campaign. Irish Babies. Well played.

wondergirl

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 3:06 pm

marina wrote:

Okay, I'll play. So this poor woman with three kids has no legal way to get to America. So she makes the long journey and sneaks in illegally. Now what? What does she do once she is here? She presumably does not speak english and neither do the kids. How does she find an apartment, work, school for kids, etc? How would her life be better here than where she was?

Last edited by wondergirl on Sun, Mar 06 2016, 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

wondergirl

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 3:09 pm

Sadie wrote:

Ha okay I get it, this is all an elaborate trolling, a satire on Trump's campaign. Irish Babies. Well played.

Excuse me? Did I ever say that he should be president? Or did I question the way the media is treating him among other things I questioned? And is asking questions and pointing out hypocrisies/double standards a way to show support or being a troll? Quite frankly, none of the candidates have impressive ideas to change America but somehow Trump is being picked on for ridiculous things that he usually never even says and I am tired of it. But if I question things about Hilary or Bernie then I am showing support for them as well or being a troll or something? I guess that is the case in your opinion which is sad and demonstrative of the way people are treated when they speak up about things and/or question things. Maybe that is the biggest problem with America. Sad

Amarante

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 3:37 pm

tigerwife wrote:

Amarante, so you don't think population plays a role at all?

No Population alone has nothing to do with political leanings. NY state is a democratic stronghold and therefore supports more social welfare programs than a Republican stronghold. Texas is a large state but has reactionary politics, has not expanded Medicaid and has among the most stringent eligibility requirements in the nation. Even Republicans in New York would be Rhinos

The only correlation with population would be cultural as traditionally cities tend to be more modern and liberal for a variety of reasons but Idaho is not conservative because it has fewer people per se.

Sadie

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 3:38 pm

wondergirl wrote:

Yep, the biggest problem with America right now is that not everyone takes every delusional screed seriously. Nailed it.

gold21

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 3:58 pm

Sadie wrote:

Yep, the biggest problem with America right now is that not everyone takes every delusional screed seriously. Nailed it.

Thats not what she said.

There definitely is a problem in this country where people with conservative views are attacked for expressing those views.

As a random example (just popped into my head lol), I assume u are familiar with Caitlyn Jenner. She was loved by liberals until just recently, when she indicated support for Ted Cruz. Well, a conservative viewpoint is just not okay for some people and many of her social media followers expressed anger at her stance. A conservative viewpoint? Just not okay to have.

Well, that is what turned so many people onto Trump in the first place, in my view. Conservatives are tired of pandering to liberal agendas and playing their games. Conservatives are entitled to their viewpoints, and the way liberals tend to respond when they hear conservative sentiments being expressed, well thats just un-American.

So, I agree its a problem in the US.

gold21

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 4:15 pm

marina wrote:

That doesnt sound like a fun immigration game.

It sounds like an oversimplification of the issues to suit your agenda. You are presenting only one side. Surely you recognize that we are going to pick up on your misrepresentation of the issue.