Trump is a sick egotistical and dangerous maniac!

youngishbear

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:17 am

seeker wrote:

In a creepy way he and his campaign remind me of Obama but worse and I can't believe people are making the same choice after 8 years of him. I thought Obama was too full of himself and not clear enough on substance either, and won on charisma and campaign strategy and saying what people liked to hear - and really, isn't "change" and "make America great again" a pretty similar slogan? Yet even Obama had more coherent things to say than Trump - though that's not saying much.

What's with the weird comparisons tonight?

Obama was intelligent, coherent, with something of a political career. Yes he was eloquent and used catchy phrases to build support, but he was polished and dignified. And diplomatic, perhaps too much so you would say.

Name one thing on this list that applies to Drumpfe (okay, now I'm just being silly. But the guy is not even the clown at the circus. He's the elephant.)

seeker

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:26 am

That's what I meant when I said even he was better than Trump. But they both think they are some kind of savior when they actually are not. There's this business of "Oh we will change everything and make it all better." Granted Obama had some more concrete ideas of how to do that, as far as I can tell of Trump, but I don't know how many people are paying attention to the details. Trump is not what I'd call eloquent but he sure is a catchy speaker. Obama had a great deal of popular appeal separate from his actual qualifications (which, as you mentioned, were at the very least present and accounted for though I still think a lot less than they should have been) - some voters chose him on substance but others probably of similar minds to those now following Trump chose him for superficial reasons. There's the health care thing which many people were interested in in theory but almost nobody could comprehend the fine print of how it was going to work - like Trump says he will change immigration but I for one am not sure how that is going to pan out and whether anyone would like it after all.

seeker

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:29 am

The grandiose thinking. Obama thought he would be the one to make peace in the middle east - um kid did you notice that's been tried already and isn't working? Well Trump said basically the same thing - "They're a hard case, but I think I can handle it." To his credit he didn't guarantee success but he did say it with that arrogant swagger - "Just leave it to me, I know how to deal with them." As if. Obama may have had a lot more substance but both have heads too large... I wondered at times if Obama had narcissistic traits (still not sure about that... it came across in his campaigning though) but with Trump I don't wonder, I'm quite sure.

youngishbear

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:40 am

seeker wrote:

I like to think that was precisely Obama's appeal. He was an intellectual who knew how to simplify his grand vision for the people. It was not hard for an American who doesn't really understand the hot mess that is the Middle East to imagine that a well-spoken Ivy Leaguer who has great diplomatic skills will finally solve that annoying situation. He did have success in that vein with Iran, but I'll assume that won't win points with you Twisted Evil

Trump is talking about building a WALL. And getting the Mexicans to pay for it! Such nonsense is demoralizing. I wonder if the entertainment-focused culture, unprecedented in human history, has led to this travesty. Americans got addicted to drama of reality TV and celebrity culture so that's whom they'd like to see in the headlines all the time instead of stuffed shirts like Bush.

With Trump, the expression isn't even that the jokes write themselves. It's that he is the joke.

I keep wondering if this isn't some orchestrated image that he deliberately cultivates, and underneath all the shtuss he is just a master media manipulator who is doing it all just to get to the top, and from there he will implement a more realistic agenda.

Wait, I quoted an article upthread about someone else whom pundits speculated about along these lines. Double sigh.

seeker

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 3:01 am

What success exactly did Obama have in Iran? He made a deal with them but I would hardly call that a success. Iran is no less scary than they were when he entered office, quite the opposite.

But you are correct on all counts as well. I just still see some similarities in the election campaigning is all. The way people are drawn to voting as if by magnetism. Definitely one could vote for Obama rationally but I strongly suspect that he didn't win because of those people alone.

Simple1

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 8:17 am

seeker wrote:

That's besides him seeming unstable. Also his lack of manners is not going to be good for international relations. I totally agree that we can't have a people-pleaser for president but you can be firm in your position while still being diplomatic.

I agree with a lot of what you posted on this thread and I don't want to see Trump nominated. But regarding this point, I actually feel that negotiating is one of his strengths and is what got him far in the business world. I feel like he can dial down the crudeness when he needs to.

Simple1

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 8:20 am

youngishbear wrote:

I think calling a working relationship with a colleague "ties to the KKK" is such nonsense that you have lost all credibility. Good night.

Others can have a different opinion then you - it doesn't mean they have lost all credibility.

Like I said I don't go for Trump, but I think Wondergirl has some points. It's sometimes hard to tell whats underneath all the media slants. I kind of agree with Marina, he looks more nutty then sinister. But I'm not sure at this point.

Mandolin

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 8:57 am

I hate that so many people seem to think because Ivanka converted that makes Trump a friend of the Jews. Have you heard him speak about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict? He won't "take sides." I don't believe he cares about Israel at all.

And it shocks me how many people really believe Ivanka is Orthodox. She doesn't attempt to cover her hair or body. I even saw a photo of her when she was pregnant posing in a Playboy bunny costume. If any other convert did these things they would be ostracized. I guess the rich and famous get different treatment.

I think a lot of Jews want to vote for Trump because Ivanka is a convert. If she wasn't I think they would be running the other direction. His rhetoric is disgusting.

theotherone

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 9:03 am

I just heard a segment of the most recent Republican debate from Thursday night where he explicitly discussed the size of his private part. (In response to a discussion about him having "small hands")
And the audience laughed hysterically. I am beyond horrified. (At him and at them)

Iymnok

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 9:08 am

For the record, he didn't get so far in the business world on business. He got there on loans from his father and and loans against his trust from his father. Since his father was so wealthy, he could take bigger risks and daddy's money would save him.
If he would've invested in a spike hedge fund in the 70's or 80's, he'd be waaaaay richer than he is now.
My feeling is of someone talks too much about their assets, those assets are it so great.

wondergirl

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 9:31 am

Heyaaa wrote:

A few months ago I said that most of this country is rednecks (you can choose to not like that word) and that is who he is appealing to. I was mocked for saying it.

Yesterday I read an article that said that most of his supporters are those without college educations. Aside from the many big cities, most of this country is, well, country. he's not trying to appeal to you. He's appealing to the majority of this country and they don't care about foreign relations or what really effects the economy. They like him because he's rich and because he says "I will make America great" with a lot of confidence. After he's made himself sound like an idiot (such as when he said that he didn't know who David duke is), his excuses are usually pathetic and immature but that's why he gets away with it. If your response is that your earpiece isn't working, you've completely taken back what you said but now we don't know what you think about it. Which is great for him and it's great for his suppoerters. It's great for him because he can say something and test the waters for a few hours to see if it was appreciated, and if it wasn't he can just say he never heard the question. It's great for his supporters because he's still flawless.

I wonder if these uneducated, country rednecks are just beyond angry about what is happening in America and don't care about fake, "pc" politicians who promise things then fail to deliver. Maybe they don't want another two-faced, lying candidate who is "diplomatic" and "politically correct" but completely useless otherwise. Trump isn't politically correct (which the media can't stand) and that may just be his appeal with Americans who have seen their rights violated, their jobs taken away, their health insurance messed up, etc.

In terms of foreign affairs, they may look at Iran and say that the mess Obama made is irreversible. They may see the Israel/Palestinian conflict is just beyond help and quite frankly, non of the current candidates seem to be capable of doing anything about it (Hillary is a liar so there is no telling what she may or may not do and Bernie Sanders is Jewish which may not help him at all since he may be seen as biased by the Palestinians so he may have to appease them more which could make things even worse for Israel than it already is. But I digress).

These country rednecks may also not have an interest in paying for things that they don't need or see as useful. For example, Bernie Sanders wants to make public college free for everyone. Will he do it by raising taxes? If so, then why on earth would a country redneck want to pay more taxes when s/he is not interested in college to begin with? Why would they vote for him when he is pushing his values onto them and forcing them to pay for their education and for the education of other people as well, when they are not interested in going to college to begin with? And if this includes illegal aliens who are already taking their jobs, then I can see why these country rednecks would be mad about this. (And even if you are college educated but you are paying for student loans on top of taxes, rent/mortgage, utilities, car/transportation fees, groceries, tuition if kids are in private school, etc. then would you want to be burdened by more taxes just so some 18 year old kid can go to college for free? And if this 18 year old is illegal then why would you agree to pay for his college education when you already paid for his elementary and/or high school education as well?)

But lets look at it differently. Imagine that you are an American citizen. You have to follow the laws of the country or you will get penalized for it. The government has different punishments that they use if an American citizen breaks a law. American citizens can be imprisoned, fined, have their licenses suspended or even revoked, can be put under house arrest, forced to do community service, forced into rehab/therapy/twelve step programs, have their cars towed/impounded, lose their houses, etc. You can lose your business, professional license, have their kids taken away, and even face the death penalty in some states, etc.

America also has immigration laws which lots of foreigners are breaking. These illegal aliens are not only not being punished for breaking the law but are actually being rewarded for it in lots of cases (and if they work illegally, then they are breaking more than one law I.e. tax fraud/evasion and are not being penalized for it either).

American prisons are full of American citizens who have broken the law in some way (and there are exceptions of course but its irrelevant at this time). Do you think you can go to prison and explain to these American citizens why they are being punished for breaking a law when illegal aliens are not only not being punished but are actually being rewarded for breaking a law (or even more than one law)? Do you think you are being fair to American citizens when you treat illegal aliens better than them?

But even more than that, the children of these country rednecks are serving in the military to protect Americans. Now you want to open the doors to possible terrorists and/or other illegal people, the very people the military is fighting against, and just let them into this country (and potentially put American citizens at risk like Germany, France and other European countries?) Why on earth should these country rednecks want this? Or pay for it? Or allow their children to serve in the army when their rights, jobs, etc are slowly but surely being taken from them and they are being punished for breaking American laws while illegal aliens are being treated better than them? Do you really think they should give a darn about foreign countries or even illegal aliens when no one gives a darn about them? Why or why not?

Last edited by wondergirl on Sun, Mar 06 2016, 9:37 am; edited 1 time in total

PinkFridge

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 9:37 am

wondergirl wrote:

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/26464/

Don't know why more of wondergirl's post from p.1 isn't coming through.
So remind us of this in November. Right now, those of us Republicans who haven't voted in the primaries yet can still stop Trump.

PinkFridge

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 9:45 am

wondergirl wrote:

You think he is no longer racist because he said he is sorry? Or because the people in his state (including all the members of the KKK) elected him? Right. Because that is exactly how racism works in this country lol.

ETA: Apparently David Duke left the KKK as well. So if its okay for Hillary to be associated with a former kkk member then it should be okay for Trump as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.....itics

Fine. Pretend the David Duke kerfuffle never happened.
Trump is a charmer. He is a master of psyching people out, a gifted performer, and more. Like Bernie, there is a feeling of genuineness, not to mention the entertainment value. (Though I do believe that in Bernie's case it's not a façade. What you see is totally what you'll get.*) Because of the incredibly superficial nature of our culture, many people either believe in Trump or are going along for the fun of it.

We however are a bit more discerning. There is so much that is disconcerting about him, that's not part of "the lamestream media" or the "neocon, sour grapes RINO crowd" or whatever you choose to call it. Objectively, he's slimy. As baishanim, rachmanim, gomlei chasadim, there's something repulsive about him. As we're in galus, I understand holding one's nose and voting for him as the lesser of evils (not saying the Democrat in Nov. is inevitably evil, but I hope you all kwim). But to embrace and endorse him, I have a hard time wrapping my head around this. But I'm only on p. 2, maybe in the ensuing posts I'll be able to appreciate how people can do so.

* Heard a great line this morning. Bernie is not the curmudgeonly grandfather. He's the grandfather that takes you out for (Tofutti) ice cream before supper and honks at every intersection because when he started driving there were very few traffic lights and stop signs.
Someone asked him what he thinks about Larry David. He said that Larry David is a better Bernie Sanders than he is. Then he dropped his voice and said, "In fact, I.. am Larry David." I appreciate his appeal.

PinkFridge

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 9:48 am

seeker wrote:

There's a lot of stuff upthread that is an issue for me as well, but one of the things that bothers me most about Trump is how he just about never answers a question. Especially a hard question. He'll say stuff but usually nothing that is directly relevant to the question, and if it's relevant it still isn't a clear answer

You're obviously not listening. He does answer very clearly. It is an article of fact and faith that "they" - whoever the they is of the question - WILL listen to him.

Why does that not satisfy you?
Wink

PinkFridge

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 9:49 am

marina wrote:

To me, Trump seems more drunk.

Americans aren't used to that in high positions of leadership ;-)

PinkFridge

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 9:55 am

theotherone wrote:

In fairness that was in response to Rubio who did a very entertaining Trump imitation, giving it back to him. Momentary lapse in judgment IMO but I don't think it should have been fatal to Rubio's campaign.
But then Trump saying Little Rubio? I'm glad he was quick enough to say, Big Don instead of Donald you ignorant sl*t.

JoyInTheMorning

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 11:33 am

PF, Rubio said, "You know what they say about people with small hands ... they're not trustworthy." Maybe Rubio intended for people to think about other body parts, but he never said it.

Then Trump said that Rubio had said that small hands means that other body parts were small too. What he said was: "And, he referred to my hands -- 'if they're small, something else must be small.' I guarantee you there's no problem. I guarantee."

Trump was considerably more vulgar.

Aside from the fact that Trump seems obsessed by insults to the size of his hands and the implications thereof, I am deeply concerned that Trump has taken down the level of discourse in politics to a level that it has never sunk to before. I am deeply concerned also about the amount of toxicity that Trump has introduced into this campaign.

We shouldn't think that because Trump hasn't (yet?) spoken demeaningly about Jews (well, at least not too much), we shouldn't worry. We should worry for several reasons. First, because we're all human beings, and we should be repelled when Trump speaks so disparagingly about Mexicans or other ethnic groups. Second, because never before in modern history has a candidate ever considered violating the first amendment and the principles on which the US was founded by having a religious litmus test for entering the country. Third, because if we are silent now, because he's not attacking us, there will be nobody to defend us if/when he comes for us.

From Martin Neimoller:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me
"

JoyInTheMorning

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 12:34 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

Now, what was hugworthy in that post? The Martin Niemoller quote? Are there imamothers who think it's just fine that Trump is anti-Mexican and anti-Muslim, because in their hearts, that's where they are too?

Sadie

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 12:35 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

Unfortunately yes.

youngishbear

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 12:46 pm

I can't decide which is scarier.

That he's actually what he appears to be, or that this is an elaborate ruse based on extensive research of what people want.