Trump is a sick egotistical and dangerous maniac!

wondergirl

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 12:48 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

PF, Rubio said, "You know what they say about people with small hands ... they're not trustworthy." Maybe Rubio intended for people to think about other body parts, but he never said it.

Then Trump said that Rubio had said that small hands means that other body parts were small too. What he said was: "And, he referred to my hands -- 'if they're small, something else must be small.' I guarantee you there's no problem. I guarantee."

Trump was considerably more vulgar.

Aside from the fact that Trump seems obsessed by insults to the size of his hands and the implications thereof, I am deeply concerned that Trump has taken down the level of discourse in politics to a level that it has never sunk to before. I am deeply concerned also about the amount of toxicity that Trump has introduced into this campaign.

We shouldn't think that because Trump hasn't (yet?) spoken demeaningly about Jews (well, at least not too much), we shouldn't worry. We should worry for several reasons. First, because we're all human beings, and we should be repelled when Trump speaks so disparagingly about Mexicans or other ethnic groups. Second, because never before in modern history has a candidate ever considered violating the first amendment and the principles on which the US was founded by having a religious litmus test for entering the country.

Do you actually believe that all American Citizens have a right to free speech? And if so, then why do you pick and choose what is or isn't acceptable under free speech and who gets to decide this? Or is it only Trump that does not have the American right of free speech?

Sadie

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 12:51 pm

wondergirl wrote:

Do you know what the first amendment actually says and means? Here's a hint: it doesn't say that people criticizing your opinions on a messageboard is a violation of your right to free speech.

wondergirl

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 1:09 pm

Sadie wrote:

Do you know what the first amendment actually says and means? Here's a hint: it doesn't say that people criticizing your opinions on a messageboard is a violation of your right to free speech.

You can obviously criticize my opinion (which I have a right to state as well) but when you twist things the person says or put words into his/her mouth because of your own agenda then you are no longer criticizing what the person said but rather your own interpretation of what was said. And you are certainly not criticizing said person if you resort to ad hominem attacks either. Both of these things seem to be happening which is why it is hard to determine what is true and what isn't especially when it comes to Trump.

But I am still waiting for an answer for my other post. I will copy and paste it here for your benefit and perhaps you can answer it especially since Joyinthemorning mentioned Martin Neimoller who asked when the people protect themselves. So based on that, when do these country rednecks (and other Trump supporters) protect themselves from harm? Or do they not have that option considering that they may not be "ethnic" or Jewish or Muslim, or illegal aliens, etc?

Quote:

Heyaaa wrote:
A few months ago I said that most of this country is rednecks (you can choose to not like that word) and that is who he is appealing to. I was mocked for saying it.

Yesterday I read an article that said that most of his supporters are those without college educations. Aside from the many big cities, most of this country is, well, country. he's not trying to appeal to you. He's appealing to the majority of this country and they don't care about foreign relations or what really effects the economy. They like him because he's rich and because he says "I will make America great" with a lot of confidence. After he's made himself sound like an idiot (such as when he said that he didn't know who David duke is), his excuses are usually pathetic and immature but that's why he gets away with it. If your response is that your earpiece isn't working, you've completely taken back what you said but now we don't know what you think about it. Which is great for him and it's great for his suppoerters. It's great for him because he can say something and test the waters for a few hours to see if it was appreciated, and if it wasn't he can just say he never heard the question. It's great for his supporters because he's still flawless.

Quote:

Wondergirl wrote:
I wonder if these uneducated, country rednecks are just beyond angry about what is happening in America and don't care about fake, "pc" politicians who promise things then fail to deliver. Maybe they don't want another two-faced, lying candidate who is "diplomatic" and "politically correct" but completely useless otherwise. Trump isn't politically correct (which the media can't stand) and that may just be his appeal with Americans who have seen their rights violated, their jobs taken away, their health insurance messed up, etc.

In terms of foreign affairs, they may look at Iran and say that the mess Obama made is irreversible. They may see the Israel/Palestinian conflict is just beyond help and quite frankly, non of the current candidates seem to be capable of doing anything about it (Hillary is a liar so there is no telling what she may or may not do and Bernie Sanders is Jewish which may not help him at all since he may be seen as biased by the Palestinians so he may have to appease them more which could make things even worse for Israel than it already is. But I digress).

These country rednecks may also not have an interest in paying for things that they don't need or see as useful. For example, Bernie Sanders wants to make public college free for everyone. Will he do it by raising taxes? If so, then why on earth would a country redneck want to pay more taxes when s/he is not interested in college to begin with? Why would they vote for him when he is pushing his values onto them and forcing them to pay for their education and for the education of other people as well, when they are not interested in going to college to begin with? And if this includes illegal aliens who are already taking their jobs, then I can see why these country rednecks would be mad about this. (And even if you are college educated but you are paying for student loans on top of taxes, rent/mortgage, utilities, car/transportation fees, groceries, tuition if kids are in private school, etc. then would you want to be burdened by more taxes just so some 18 year old kid can go to college for free? And if this 18 year old is illegal then why would you agree to pay for his college education when you already paid for his elementary and/or high school education as well?)

But lets look at it differently. Imagine that you are an American citizen. You have to follow the laws of the country or you will get penalized for it. The government has different punishments that they use if an American citizen breaks a law. American citizens can be imprisoned, fined, have their licenses suspended or even revoked, can be put under house arrest, forced to do community service, forced into rehab/therapy/twelve step programs, have their cars towed/impounded, lose their houses, etc. You can lose your business, professional license, have their kids taken away, and even face the death penalty in some states, etc.

America also has immigration laws which lots of foreigners are breaking. These illegal aliens are not only not being punished for breaking the law but are actually being rewarded for it in lots of cases (and if they work illegally, then they are breaking more than one law I.e. tax fraud/evasion and are not being penalized for it either).

American prisons are full of American citizens who have broken the law in some way (and there are exceptions of course but its irrelevant at this time). Do you think you can go to prison and explain to these American citizens why they are being punished for breaking a law when illegal aliens are not only not being punished but are actually being rewarded for breaking a law (or even more than one law)? Do you think you are being fair to American citizens when you treat illegal aliens better than them?

But even more than that, the children of these country rednecks are serving in the military to protect Americans. Now you want to open the doors to possible terrorists and/or other illegal people, the very people the military is fighting against, and just let them into this country (and potentially put American citizens at risk like Germany, France and other European countries?) Why on earth should these country rednecks want this? Or pay for it? Or allow their children to serve in the army when their rights, jobs, etc are slowly but surely being taken from them and they are being punished for breaking American laws while illegal aliens are being treated better than them? Do you really think they should give a darn about foreign countries or even illegal aliens when no one gives a darn about them? Why or why not?

anon for this

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 1:17 pm

wondergirl, you write that you think ad hominem attacks are inappropriate. I agree that they should be avoided, especially in serious political discourse. But if that's how you feel, I don't understand how you can support Donald Trump, who's well-known for ad hominem attack on political opponents and random people he's encountered.

Sadie

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 1:24 pm

Wondergirl, someone twisting your words, or criticizing their interpretation of your words, might not be nice but it is also not a violation of your first amendment rights. A religious test for citizenship or political asylum is a violation of our collective first amendment rights.

As for your racist "rednecks" they have every right to be angry, but they're angry at the wrong people. It's not Mexicans who took the well paid manufacturing jobs away from working class whites, it was the big corporations that shipped jobs overseas and still don't pay their fair share of taxes.

Also anyone who thinks that undocumented immigrants have it better than citizens, or that they're living some kind of high life, is not living in the real world.

wondergirl

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 1:25 pm

anon for this wrote:

Is Trump resorting to ad hominem attacks or does the media twist everything he says and/or puts words into his mouth. And if he does resort to ad hominem attacks then is he the only politician who does this or is that what the media led you to believe?

And why can't anyone answer my other question, I really would like to understand it.

anon for this

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 1:35 pm

wondergirl wrote:

One example: in an interview, Trump said of opponent Carly Fiorina: "Look at that face. Would anyone vote for that?"

Another: Trump has commented many times, including several times in public debates, on Rubio's sweating.

wondergirl

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 1:39 pm

Sadie wrote:

No, twisting words or putting words into someone's mouth is not a violation of free speech but it also doesn't make said person racist or anti-anything either just because you misconstrued what the person said.

If the corporations are to blame and an American business man wants to change that, then I fail to see what the problem is or how is anyone racist for supporting someone who wants to change things?

Do illegal aliens live high or better than American citizens? Is that what I said? Because what I did say is that American citizens are punished for breaking the law yet illegal aliens are not punished for breaking one or more laws (and there are exceptions to this but that is irrelevant). I used prison as an example--how come American citizens are in prison for breaking the law when illegal aliens are not and have the freedom to work, go to school, or do other things that American citizens in prison don't have? Would you be able to explain this double standards/hypocrisy to American citizens who are currently in prison for breaking the law? Or perhaps you can explain why illegal aliens are allowed to get drivers licenses in some states when American citizens may have their licenses suspended/revoked for breaking the law? Etc.

Are illegal aliens above the law?

Sadie

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 1:47 pm

wondergirl wrote:

No, twisting words or putting words into someone's mouth is not a violation of free speech but it also doesn't make said person racist or anti-anything either just because you misconstrued what the person said.

If the corporations are to blame and an American business man wants to change that, then I fail to see what the problem is or how is anyone racist for supporting someone who wants to change things?

Do illegal aliens live high or better than American citizens? Is that what I said? Because what I did say is that American citizens are punished for breaking the law yet illegal aliens are not punished (and there are exceptions to this but that is irrelevant). I used prison as an example--how come American citizens are in prison for breaking the law when illegal aliens are not and have the freedom to work, go to school, or do other things that American citizens in prison don't have? Would you be able to explain this double standards/hypocrisy to American citizens who are currently in prison for breaking the law? Or perhaps you can explain why illegal aliens are allowed to get drivers licenses in some states when American citizens may have their licenses suspended/revoked for breaking the law? Etc.

Are illegal aliens above the law?

I'm sorry, there is no response to this. It's just very sad. Sad that you think that people fleeing poverty, war, and religious/political persecution should be jailed. And you come from a people that for centuries had to be ready to flee at the drop of a hat. Who had to cross borders in the dark of night. Who had to hide illegally in forests and cellars to protect themselves and their children. Shame on you.

Sudy

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:06 pm

Sadie wrote:

Enough with the shaming. Not everyone must have the same opinion as you.

When my ancestors fled to a country illegally they were running for their lives. Most of the people coming into our country are coming for economic benefits. Very big difference.

Sadie

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:15 pm

Sudy wrote:

You have no idea when Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, El Salvadorans, and others are fleeing. Do a little googling and educate yourself. And start thinking of undocumented immigrants as human beings who deserve compassion.

WhatFor

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:15 pm

Sudy wrote:

Yes, because fourteen year old pregnant girls traveling by foot from Guatemala are really just looking to earn more money. When you are fleeing a country where the leadership is corrupt, gangs abound, and neighbors are routinely shot in the streets, you are not simply looking for economic benefits.
What many people don't know if that there exists no way for many of these people to enter legally. The concept of a line is false. Some people have a way and some people don't even have a line to get on. Be grateful that you or your ancestors had a way to enter legally. But recognize that that is a privilege that not everyone has.

PinkFridge

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:18 pm

wondergirl wrote:

Of course. And if, in the course of using his right to free speech he proves himself to be an oafish dolt, we all have the right to explain why we don't want to vote for him.

naturalmom5

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:20 pm

Sadie wrote:

No. SHAME ON YOU Sadie, for twisting and distorting your own heritage and history to make excuses for people that would kill your Jewish guts in a heartbeat given half a chance

Its really scary that there are so many delusional Shwarner Goodman Jews who are allegedly frum

wondergirl

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:20 pm

Sadie wrote:

Sorry but your guilt trip is not going to work on me. Mostly because my parents are immigrants but they did it legally, learned English, took and passed the citizenship test, etc. And they didn't break American law but did it despite the fact that it took a long time so others can do it as well. But it is not fair to them that people are now breaking American law to come here and are being rewarded for it while they are at it.

It is also not fair to American citizens either. There are poor American citizens who can't afford food, housing, etc. There are American citizens who are not getting educated properly and/or can't afford college. There are poor American citizens who can't afford health insurance, or mental health counseling, etc. There are American citizens who are active in gangs which puts children in some neighborhood in a very dangerous situation. etc, etc.

If the migrants in Europe have it so bad in their countries, then why are they raping, attacking, and/or killing European women? Is this what you want here in America as well? If crime is so rampant in some countries, then why is no one cleaning it up? Why are the men escaping instead of fighting it? And why do they join gangs or commit other crimes if they really just wanted a safe place to live (obviously I am not generalizing but seriously, if they don't care about American law then why would they care about anything else)?
It is not fair to American citizens who get punished for breaking the law while illegal aliens are obviously above the law. And if you feel bad for illegal aliens because they faced hardships in their countries (because the media said so), then you should have the same compassion for American citizens who faced hardships in America. Which essentially means that you would need to stop punishing American citizens for breaking the law as well. And if that is the case then why bother having laws altogether? Just get rid of all the laws and let people do whatever they want. That will be the fairest thing to do, no?
But if a presidential candidate says that he will find a way to protect American citizens from further harm then why would you not want that? Because as far as I understand, the job of the American President is first and foremost to protect and ensure the safety of American citizens, not illegal aliens. Do you really want a commandeer-in-chief to care more about foreigners/illegal aliens than his/her own constituents? And why?

PinkFridge

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:21 pm

wondergirl wrote:

Wow. I didn't realize that Trump was so weak and ineffective that he was being misquoted all over. Are they splicing some things? Can you give us examples? Poor Don, nebach.

Sadie

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:22 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Um no, the children of Latin American immigrants would not kill my Jewish guts in a heartbeat. They're people I went to school with, worked with, and am friends with to this day.

PinkFridge

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:23 pm

And I am not like the Ann Coulters and evangelicals who are so rabidly against immigration that they focus exclusively on that in choosing a candidate. Note Ann Coultergeist who said that she doesn't care if Trump performs abortions in the Oval Office, as long as he's right on immigration.

naturalmom5

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:23 pm

Sadie wrote:

I'm sorry but you may have Google and your own liberal bleeding heart
I on the other hand have life experience and speak Spanish fluently

Most of the Hispanics I have been exposed to in Lakewood/monsey are very big antisemites

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gold21

Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:24 pm

Sadie wrote:

I dont see the parallel.
I think many of us are in favor of allowing immigrants from unstable countries to enter the US via a legal chapter (or, in desperate situations, an illegal chapter). If a whole bunch of north koreans had an opportunity to flee to the US, I would say Get here asap! How can I help?

Youre completely ignoring the ideology that many Syrians were raised with and live with, and the threat they pose to US security. So, because you choose to ignore, are u saying it is shameful that we do not choose to ignore?

This is not a comment about Trump. I am not getting involved in that discussion, as I have very mixed feelings about him as a candidate.

Last edited by gold21 on Sun, Mar 06 2016, 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total