I heard that in Montreal there's less fraud because

amother

Firebrick

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 12:39 am

amother wrote:

The benefits are not only for the poor.
Is this true?

Absolutely.
My friends there own real estate and get tons of benefits.
In the US it's so hard to make ends meet, and if you're not actually poor you don't get any govt assistance.
In reality, the middle class are poor, but not poor enough as per our govt.

Disclaimer: this doesn't make stealing right, but I'm just explaining.

amother

Pumpkin

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 1:06 am

well there is fraud and corruption in Montreal... just today... http://montrealgazette.com/new.....llion

but pardon me - less fraud then in the US with respect to benefits?

there is less fraud because there are fewer programs.

but sure - there is healthcare fraud. For example, you need to be resident in the province to get healthcare - not just own property...

Social Assistance is for the poor only.

No food stamps

Heavily subsidized childcare - but there is a waiting list.

universal child assistance payment (ie money from the Quebec government for each child under 18 - amount varies based on income). Again need to be actually resident in Quebec to be eligible.

amother

Beige

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 1:14 am

I live in Montreal.
1. Universal Health Care
2. Universal Child Credit (You get this even if you are a billionaire. 160$/ child under 6 and 60$/ child ages 6 -18, every month.)
3. Income specific child credit. This is indexed to your income. If you earn more than 35 000$ after all deductions, it slowly decreases. The full amount is equal to about 400$/ child per month.
4. Child Care tax credit. Everyone can claim this, regardless of income. For children under 6 it is about 700$/ month. Older school age children get about 300$/ month. This must be used towards child care/ tuition.
5. Maternity/ Paternity leave for 9 - 12 months.
6. You can have assets. Your benefits are based on your annual income after all deductions.

We have 6 kids. We own a million dollar property and earn a total of 50 000$/ year.
After all eligible deductions, our net income for tax purposes was about 36 000$. We receive 4000$/ month in total child credits plus an additional 1800$ in child care benefits that is used to pay a large chunk of our tuition bill. Our total monthly "revenue" is 10 000$ in earnings + benefits. We live well b''h and have no need to cheat a system that is overly generous b''h.

amother

Vermilion

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 2:13 am

I have lived in both Canada and the US. As PPs mentioned, Canada has universal health care, various tax breaks and reimbursements especially if you have kids, daycare in Quebec is highly subsidized, there is a full year of maternity/parental leave... Lots of benefits for everyone. There are no food stamps or WIC to fraudulently use. When I lived in Quebec I got a direct deposit of an extra $35 a month because I lived alone. It helped.

I think it's great that there are so many programs in the US for people who need them. I don't agree with it as a way of life, though.

Also, I'm not saying it's right, especially not for people with millions in the bank, but I can see the appeal of trying to cheat the system when it's so hard to make ends meet, you worry about basic needs like food, shelter, healthcare, etc.

amother

Red

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 7:39 am

Asking seriously, not mocking. Are there kollel couples in Montreal? I mean, there must be. So they get by without the programs? Do all their parents support monthly? How does anyone, not just kollel, support a family when only 1 parent works? Asking about kollel specifically because in America, programs are the way of life for many.

yksraya

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 9:06 am

amother wrote:

As already clarified by above posters, in mtl, they get the programs regardless of the income. So they do get programs.

amother

Papaya

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 9:32 am

It's true that you get the benefits regardless of income, but most of them go on a sliding scale. There are plenty of people declaring less than they make to get more childcare assistance. The $7 a day program was recently also changed to be on a sliding scale.

The difference is though that declaring less than you earn is not considered a crime, if caught you will be fined not sent to jail.

AFAIK th kollels pay off the books so the kollel families can get maximum benefits.

amother

Jetblack

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 9:50 am

amother wrote:

AFAIK th kollels pay off the books so the kollel families can get maximum benefits.

I believe that in Canada nowadays scholarship income, which is basically kollel income, isnt taxable. Legally.

amother

Beige

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 10:05 am

amother wrote:

The justice system is different in Canada. I actually know someone who did not report income from rental properties in order to claim the maximum amount of child credits. He was audited by the Canada Revenue Agency and needed to pay back 150 000$ in past benefits. They set up a system whereby all his rental income is deposited directly to the relevant governmental department until his debt is paid in full. End of story. No arrests. No cost to the taxpayer. Knowing that you will have to pay it back if caught serves as a deterrent.

amother

Pumpkin

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 10:10 am

amother wrote:

The difference is though that declaring less than you earn is not considered a crime, if caught you will be fined not sent to jail

there is jail time for tax evasion - but its uncommon.

One major difference between Canada and the US regarding tax returns is in the US you sign a return "Under penalties of perjury" in Canada you do not. The penalty for perjury in the US is potentially a fine and jail time.

Ruchel

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 10:24 am

I know kollel couples where no one works (many kollelim don't pay though) because they bh have many kids, get money for each kid, vouchers that can go toward school sometimes or toward camp, some school take "what they can" from kollelmen (or even from anyone bh especially but not only Chabad), social apartment.. My husband works nowadays but we still qualify for lots of help including dirt cheap cleaning (that we take) and baby sitting (that we don't), the town pays the glatt kosher hot lunch at BY.

OT but in case you know anyone who needs, anonymous donors have made it possible for an association to pay one year of Jewish school in several areas in France, so if you cannot pay let me know and I'll put you in touch.

amother

Pumpkin

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 3:01 pm

fish wrote:

AFAIK th kollels pay off the books so the kollel families can get maximum benefits.

The kollels do not pay off the books. The income is concidered a scholarship and is not taxable.[/quote]

and I wonder if this has been tested in court yet - because this is a very creative interpretation/application of the tax law, and its intent.

amother

Tan

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 4:00 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Omg! We are totally moving out there!!!

yogabird

Fri, Jun 30 2017, 4:03 pm

Curious to know where the Canadian government gets all this money. If the system is so great, why doesn't the USA adopt it? Or at least some parts of it?

I think I may already know part of the answer, but I'm curious to know more.