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-> In the News
simba
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 Tue, May 08 2018, 2:31 pm
The catholic community is in uproar and offended by the theme of last nights event. Party goers were dressed up like the pope, angels, Virgin Mary etc..
How would th Jewish world react to a party themed by our religion?
Provocative versions of who you hold sacred?
How is this ok?
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southernbubby
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:33 pm
| simba wrote: | The catholic community is in uproar and offended by the theme of last nights event. Party goers were dressed up like the pope, angels, Virgin Mary etc..
How would th Jewish world react to a party themed by our religion?
Provocative versions of who you hold sacred?
How is this ok? |
we would also be offended
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simba
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:39 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | | we would also be offended |
Very much so.
The paradox here is that these are the supposed PC liberal community. Not one had a problem with it? They all thought it as OK?
Just goes to show where their true allegiance lies. The cameras and glitz.
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SixOfWands
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:41 pm
Did anyone see Lynda Carter:
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southernbubby
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:43 pm
| simba wrote: | Very much so.
The paradox here is that these are the supposed PC liberal community. Not one had a problem with it? They all thought it as OK?
Just goes to show where their true allegiance lies. The cameras and glitz. |
These hypocrites are the ones who get upset if a teenage girl wears a revealing version of a Chinese dress to her prom and consider her guilty of cultural appropriation. They also feel the same way about little girls who dress up as a Polynesian girl in a Disney cartoon.
When it comes to religion these people would like to uproot and kill all of it. They want to put all religion out of business and get rid of it lock, stock and barrel. They are looking for any avenue to trounce religion and throw it under the bus.
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thunderstorm
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:46 pm
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I was actually surprised that they were acknowledging religion for a change. I didn't realize it was meant to be offensive.
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SixOfWands
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:48 pm
| simba wrote: | Very much so.
The paradox here is that these are the supposed PC liberal community. Not one had a problem with it? They all thought it as OK?
Just goes to show where their true allegiance lies. The cameras and glitz. |
The theme was "Heavenly Bodies: Fashion and the Catholic Imagination." As always, it relates to an exhibit, and the exhibit had approval from the Catholic church; the Vatican was consulted about the contents. Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi, president of the Pontifical Council for Culture, wrote an introduction to the exhibit’s catalogue, reflecting on the significance of God clothing Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
Who am I to say that its not OK if the Vatican said it was?
The execution of the theme is a different matter.
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etky
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:48 pm
| SixOfWands wrote: | Did anyone see Lynda Carter:
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Well, it did make the news here - and it's not like there's a dearth of newsworthy stories to cover today....
I was actually more impressed by how well she has aged than by the dress itself. 
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southernbubby
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:49 pm
| thunderstorm wrote: | | I was actually surprised that they were acknowledging religion for a change. I didn't realize it was meant to be offensive. |
It would be the same as if they took every person in the Torah that we regard as holy and dressed up as those people but in a provocative way, chas v'sholem. While they would have acknowledged religion, they are doing it to trample on it.
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SixOfWands
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:52 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | These hypocrites are the ones who get upset if a teenage girl wears a revealing version of a Chinese dress to her prom and consider her guilty of cultural appropriation. They also feel the same way about little girls who dress up as a Polynesian girl in a Disney cartoon.
When it comes to religion these people would like to uproot and kill all of it. They want to put all religion out of business and get rid of it lock, stock and barrel. They are looking for any avenue to trounce religion and throw it under the bus. |
I'm one of "these people," although I thought the prom dress was absurd.
So, allow me to say that I don't want to uproot and kill all religion. Not do I look for ways to trounce on religion or throw it under the bus.
Its extraordinarily offensive to classify a group of people and to attack them, and hypocritical in the extreme to do so in the guise of "those people are hypocritical ...."
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simba
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:53 pm
| thunderstorm wrote: | | I was actually surprised that they were acknowledging religion for a change. I didn't realize it was meant to be offensive. |
Acknowledging while downright disrespecting. Cleavage and a papal gown?
What if the theme was Jewish and she showed up wrapped in a Tallis and lingerie underneath with a zexy black fedora? Not everything needs to be acknowledged by Hollywood, seems they don't know how to do it right.
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SixOfWands
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:54 pm
| etky wrote: | Well, it did make the news here - and it's not like there's a dearth of newsworthy stories to cover today....
I was actually more impressed by how well she has aged than by the dress itself. |
I'm trying to figure out WHY she did it.
Maybe it was to counter the criticism of Gal Gadot playing Wonder Woman because she's an Israeli. Lynda Carter was most famous as Wonder Woman, of course.
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simba
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:55 pm
| SixOfWands wrote: | The theme was "Heavenly Bodies: Fashion and the Catholic Imagination." As always, it relates to an exhibit, and the exhibit had approval from the Catholic church; the Vatican was consulted about the contents. Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi, president of the Pontifical Council for Culture, wrote an introduction to the exhibit’s catalogue, reflecting on the significance of God clothing Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
Who am I to say that its not OK if the Vatican said it was?
The execution of the theme is a different matter. |
Nothing wrong with an exhibit..but to defile religion..I don't have to stand up for Christianity but I know I would be in arms I feel they did this to judiasm.
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southernbubby
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Tue, May 08 2018, 2:56 pm
| SixOfWands wrote: | I'm one of "these people," although I thought the prom dress was absurd.
So, allow me to say that I don't want to uproot and kill all religion. Not do I look for ways to trounce on religion or throw it under the bus.
Its extraordinarily offensive to classify a group of people and to attack them, and hypocritical in the extreme to do so in the guise of "those people are hypocritical ...." |
oh no, here we go again!
The only thing that I saw wrong with the prom dress was the slit up the side ruined the dress but I see nothing wrong with cultural appropriation. Yes, I think that much of liberalism is hypocrisy and many liberals are anti-religion.
I realize that not all liberals are against religion, nor do all conservatives want to dress up as Chinese women but for heaven's sake, don't take it personally. I didn't mean you!
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etky
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Tue, May 08 2018, 3:04 pm
| SixOfWands wrote: | I'm trying to figure out WHY she did it.
Maybe it was to counter the criticism of Gal Gadot playing Wonder Woman because she's an Israeli. Lynda Carter was most famous as Wonder Woman, of course. |
DD and I were also wondering...
I'm sure it must have something to do with Gal Gadot.
I think I will actually go back and read the article and the readers' responses to see what people are suggesting.
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etky
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Tue, May 08 2018, 3:26 pm
OK, they're saying that was done as a 'gesture to the Jewish people'.
Some people are also speculating that the headpiece saying לעולם אל תשכחי is in conversation with Netta Barzilay's wildly popular song "Toy" which is being performed tonight in the Eurovision semifinals. It has a line saying: "Wonder Woman don't you ever forget".
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simba
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Tue, May 08 2018, 4:15 pm
| etky wrote: | OK, they're saying that was done as a 'gesture to the Jewish people'.
Some people are also speculating that the headpiece saying לעולם אל תשכחי is in conversation with Netta Barzilay's wildly popular song "Toy" which is being performed tonight in the Eurovision semifinals. It has a line saying: "Wonder Woman don't you ever forget". |
Still a bit weird, though I think she looked great.
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Fox
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Tue, May 08 2018, 4:29 pm
There are a lot of excellent, reasonable ideas out there that lose credibility because they are taken too far by kooky people.
"Cultural appropriation" is one of them.
Originally, no one was particularly interested in beating up on nice moms who dressed their kids up in Native American costumes for Halloween or Purim. The targets of criticism were college-age kids wearing "drunken Indian" or "s-xy Indian" costumes that were derived directly from stereotypes and problems faced by Native Americans.
That, IMHO, is fair. In fact, virtually any idea that a group of college-age boys has that starts with, "Hey, let's . . . " is probably offensive, dangerous, illegal, or all three.
But as British journalist Douglas Murray says, "There's a supply and demand problem with bigotry." There were more people angry about genuinely offensive costumes than there were people wearing them, so the definitions kept getting expanded.
Before you knew it, wearing gold hoops and dark eyeliner was offensive if you weren't Latina. A Westerner in a kimono was offensive to everyone except the Japanese, who were trying to save their dying kimono-making industry. And, of course, a teenager of apparent European ancestry wearing a cheongsam to her prom offended a jeans-wearing American of Chinese ancestry, though it didn't offend any actual Chinese people.
Based on the original, legitimate intent of criticizing culturally insensitive costumes, the Met Gala was far, far worse than the routine examples we debate every Halloween and Purim.
There is a great deal of value in exploring the intersection of the sacred and the profane as it relates to fashion and art. But, of course, Anna Wintour and her minions chose not to do that. Instead, they treated the "theme" as an opportunity to take sacred symbols and plaster them across heaving bosoms and backsides, winking at their supposed cleverness in juxtaposing artifacts of man's desire to cling to G-d with examples of overt s-xuality. Gosh, how original.
Wintour's offense is far closer to that of drunken college students making fun of the most tragic elements of the Native American experience than it is the mom who dresses her kids up as Native Americans for Halloween or Purim or the girl who wears an Asian-inspired dress to prom.
It is the difference between simply copying, enjoying, and adapting something you've been exposed to -- which, after all is what art is all about -- and symbolically mocking it. The difference between, say, a child dressing up as a Chossid versus a child dressed as a Chossid carrying a make-believe Torah on which is written, "How to Rule the World."
Unfortunately, in voicing reasonable objections to the latter, we've allowed the kooks to confuse us about the former. The result is that teenage girls are subjected to Twitterstorms over perfectly nice dresses (that cover a lot more flesh than most prom dresses, I might add) while editors of major fashion magazines are given a pass for unsavory bigotry.
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FranticFrummie
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Tue, May 08 2018, 4:34 pm
Can you just imagine a gala dedicated to "Portraits of Mohammad"? The Muslim world would go insane, and there would be riots in the street. Anyone remember Charlie Hedbo?
How about "A Salute to Hindu Artists: Sacred Cow BBQ to follow."
Apparently, some religions are more equal than others. 
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simba
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Tue, May 08 2018, 4:37 pm
| Fox wrote: | There are a lot of excellent, reasonable ideas out there that lose credibility because they are taken too far by kooky people.
"Cultural appropriation" is one of them.
Originally, no one was particularly interested in beating up on nice moms who dressed their kids up in Native American costumes for Halloween or Purim. The targets of criticism were college-age kids wearing "drunken Indian" or "s-xy Indian" costumes that were derived directly from stereotypes and problems faced by Native Americans.
That, IMHO, is fair. In fact, virtually any idea that a group of college-age boys has that starts with, "Hey, let's . . . " is probably offensive, dangerous, illegal, or all three.
But as British journalist Douglas Murray says, "There's a supply and demand problem with bigotry." There were more people angry about genuinely offensive costumes than there were people wearing them, so the definitions kept getting expanded.
Before you knew it, wearing gold hoops and dark eyeliner was offensive if you weren't Latina. A Westerner in a kimono was offensive to everyone except the Japanese, who were trying to save their dying kimono-making industry. And, of course, a teenager of apparent European ancestry wearing a cheongsam to her prom offended a jeans-wearing American of Chinese ancestry, though it didn't offend any actual Chinese people.
Based on the original, legitimate intent of criticizing culturally insensitive costumes, the Met Gala was far, far worse than the routine examples we debate every Halloween and Purim.
There is a great deal of value in exploring the intersection of the sacred and the profane as it relates to fashion and art. But, of course, Anna Wintour and her minions chose not to do that. Instead, they treated the "theme" as an opportunity to take sacred symbols and plaster them across heaving bosoms and backsides, winking at their supposed cleverness in juxtaposing artifacts of man's desire to cling to G-d with examples of overt s-xuality. Gosh, how original.
Wintour's offense is far closer to that of drunken college students making fun of the most tragic elements of the Native American experience than it is the mom who dresses her kids up as Native Americans for Halloween or Purim or the girl who wears an Asian-inspired dress to prom.
It is the difference between simply copying, enjoying, and adapting something you've been exposed to -- which, after all is what art is all about -- and symbolically mocking it. The difference between, say, a child dressing up as a Chossid versus a child dressed as a Chossid carrying a make-believe Torah on which is written, "How to Rule the World."
Unfortunately, in voicing reasonable objections to the latter, we've allowed the kooks to confuse us about the former. The result is that teenage girls are subjected to Twitterstorms over perfectly nice dresses (that cover a lot more flesh than most prom dresses, I might add) while editors of major fashion magazines are given a pass for unsavory bigotry. |
So that's what I meant to say but my IQ is about 1/4 of yours so I simply couldn't pull it together!
Will it get creepy if I compliment each of your posts?!
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