S/O against the rules to attack an ima?

nomismommy

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 6:32 am

Metukah wrote:

Maya, I'm going to have to disagree with you. I've often enough seen posters attack your opinions. I have on more than one occasion disagreed with your view; although I hope it was respectful.

However, there can be no denying that the rw/charedi view is the less popular here and most disrespected. As a rw poster, I often feel that the tag line of imamother should change. Its not popular on here to be makpid on halacha and to try be more frum. I'm not saying that the overall tone on here is anti charedi or that most posters respond in that way, but, the most vocal posters do. Additionally, when an unpopular lw/mo opinion is posted the attacks are not as aggressive.

I think lots of rw posters feel the same way as me. There must be a reason.

(my response has no connection to the op post and does not denote approval of 'child abuse supporters')

I personally try to ignore seas posts because they annoy me or make me upset. I guess it's like in real life.. some people just don't get along and never will. Wouldn't agree with you that chareidi opinions get harsh comments.. I think it's closed minded opinions which make people comment in a rude way. If someone always judges others and comes off as a super arrogant, closed minded person who thinks their purpose is to always tell others what they're doing wrong, that they're not frum enough, don't know halacha etc.. they deserve those comments. You can't always act like you're hashem himself and think you're better than everyone else and expect people to like you.
I guess you're mixing up chareidi with telling people off .. which it doesn't have to be. One can be super frum and still accept others as they are without belittling them. Being accepting doesn't have to be modern.

roses

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 8:37 am

Squishy wrote:

And calling out frum ladies because of past threads and ganging up on them because you don't like their personality makes it less tolerable to others.

"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all JUST get along? Can we get along?"

I take each thread as it comes. If I see someone being hurtful, callous, arrogant, deceitful, etc. In the name of religion, while hurting other people, I will call them out on it. In that particular thread.

I am acting of my own accord. Perhaps it looks like ganging up because so many others also believe that the poster is acting hurtful and will call her out on it as well. In that case, I invite the poster as well as her defenders to do some introspection to see where she might modify her own behaviors so she does not invite these kinds of responses. Unless, of course, she thrives on this and hurting people is what gives her her thrills.

little neshamala

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 8:46 am

Metukah wrote:

Not sure I agree. Ive often posted, clearly saying im right wing-yeshivish, and my post would be straight up leaning to the right, stick up for halacha, etc etc.

Ive never felt bashed. People always discuss the issue pretty respectfully with me.

Probably because I dont say ridiculous things and cloak them as halacha, while throwing in a "source" that I interpreted incorrectly.

moonstone

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 9:21 am

nomismommy wrote:

I agree 100%.

Cheiny

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 9:28 am

Rappel wrote:

Your brevity adds levity. Wink

But in all seriousness: that thread feels like open season on Seas. Maybe it's because of the anonymity of the internet, but it felt like a gang-up in the schoolyard, rather than an adult discussion.

Try taking a look at the politics threads. First the attacks, then it gets locked. Without fail,

Cheiny

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 9:29 am

Seas wrote:

Thanks OP.

My broader point, which was obviously too subtle, was that everyone is judgemental when it's something they feel passionate about.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely abhor child abusers and am quite happy to condemn the wicked parents (if it's true - I'm somewhat skeptical of Israeli authorities when reporting on frum people).

But see, if I ever dare voice a judgement about any spiritual rasha, even someone who is openly anti Hashem, I get the usual suspects jumping down my throat. They suddenly become experts in hilchos ahavas Yisroel and lashon hora.

But the very same class of posters, whenever there's any hint of scandal in frum communities (see also for example the El Al thread), quite happily judge and condemn like there's no tomorrow.

Suddenly all the limudei zchus, issurim of lashon hora, dinim of ahavas Yisroel, all fly out of the window.

So it's not about not being judgemental, but about choosing where to apply judgement.

And as an aside, these same posters who'd be up in arms of I said for example that a mechalel Shabbos is a rasha, are quite happy to be nasty and mean to me. Seemingly, ahavas Yisroel and lashon hora only apply to secular Jews.

Exactly right!!!!

Cheiny

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 9:31 am

jkl wrote:

This is not to condone any judgmental behavior, but this is important to highlight:

Spirituality is between a person and God, and there's no way anyone can truly know what is in the mind of another person.

But physicality - with evidence confirming it - is in our realms, and we can publicly condemn such behavior.

With you judge someone spiritually, you're attempting to play God. When you judge physical behavior, you're playing a human.

I totally disagree. When someone is openly shooting away halacha, and justifying their positions, it is appropriate to challenge it, os others don’t follow in those ways. And people will be quick to condemn without any evidence of abuse, such as was done with Justice Kavanaugh.

Cheiny

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 9:33 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Enough, stop, please just stop. No more. You abhor the abusers but you dont know if its true?
Why would anyone lie about ELEVEN children being abused? And the link in that thread was from a frum site, not an israeli one.

If you learn the halachot of lashon hara, you’ll know that “reading it on a FRUM website” is not evidence of anything and one is not allowed to accept as fact what they read in the press about a Jew. If you don’t like the facts you’d have to take it up with Hashem.

Cheiny

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 9:36 am

Maya wrote:

Yes, poor innocent posters, ganged up on for no good reason.

I’m also someone who gets a lot of cr*p, but I know it’s because I have strong and often unpopular opinions, and because of my background sometimes say things that people don’t want to hear. If I was scared of the backlash, I wouldn’t express those opinions here.

People respond the way they are talked to. If these posters have objections to being ganged up on, perhaps they should avoid making the controversial comments that they do. But it seems to me that they exactly what they’re doing.

Anyone who’s honest will have to admit that on the political threads, one gets attacked merely for their political view alone,, even when stated respectfully and factually. Nothing more, nothing less. If you should support the president, you’d better take cover...

Cheiny

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 9:40 am

Maya wrote:

Fair point

Do you think Seas gets attacked simply for being a right wing poster, and it has nothing to do with what she says or how she says it?

And Cheiny gets attacked only because she leans right politically, and not for her belligerent and condescending posts?

To add, I get attacked from all sides when I comment anything negatively - even though it’s truthful - about my background. So right here is a left wing poster who deals with the same issues. But I’m not crying about it. I know what’s going to happen when I engage, as do most posters.

You seem to be repeatedly justifying the attacks. Is that your intention?

Cheiny

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 9:42 am

Maya wrote:

Absolutely. I have no doubt whatsoever that if I hated Trump and expressed that, I’d be getting likes, hugs, all the love.

Cheiny

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 9:44 am

ectomorph wrote:

My personal opinion is that seas and cheiny are Both joseph from yeshiva world coffee room. But assuming they're real posters I do think that they get unfairly attacked at times for things that left wingers dont.

Huh?! I have no idea who Joseph is and I am who I say I am! Please don’t make assumptions....

Cheiny

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 9:50 am

smileforamile wrote:

The thing is that Cheiny, in particular, often goes after other posters. If you haven't read her other threads/post to know that she is going to push the conservative agenda really hard, you'd take it very personally. It's not surprising that other posters gang up on her, even if it is way too nasty. I have defended Cheiny from those kinds of attacks on several occasions. There have been several posters (myself included) who have tried to politely ask Cheiny to back off a little, but she responded with something to the effect of "There's freedom of speech, those who don't want to read my opinions don't need to open the thread." The solution to that is for there to be NO RESPONSES when she posts another thread about the "Dems" (her abbreviation, not mine).

Btw- as I've said, I'm a staunch conservative, and actually agree with a lot of what Cheiny says. I just try to be more moderate about it and not bother to engage with posters with whom I will never see eye to eye.

I admit that I don't always pay so much attention to specific posters' trends, so a pattern must be really obvious and repeated for me to notice. I hadn't known that so many posters attacked Seas until this most recent thread. It seemed to me that what she said on there was very controversial, but not worthy of such an gang-up attack. (If I were Seas, I would've backed down, and said, "Okay, whatever, let's agree to disagree." But that's me, because I don't like it when other posters attack me.)

I asked you before, and I’ll ask you again, since you seem to take offense with a harmless abbreviation of “dems” for Democrats, please explain what the negative connotation is that you see in that, because I sure never heard of any. Perhaps you misunderstood a harmless abbreviation for a nasty generalization??? Can’t imagine this being offensive.

jkl

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 9:53 am

Metukah wrote:

However, there can be no denying that the rw/charedi view is the less popular here and most disrespected. As a rw poster, I often feel that the tag line of imamother should change. Its not popular on here to be makpid on halacha and to try be more frum. I'm not saying that the overall tone on here is anti charedi or that most posters respond in that way, but, the most vocal posters do. Additionally, when an unpopular lw/mo opinion is posted the attacks are not as aggressive.

I think lots of rw posters feel the same way as me. There must be a reason.

(my response has no connection to the op post and does not denote approval of 'child abuse supporters')

In life, every reaction has the capability of an equal but opposite reaction. So the more rigid the restriction, the more of a chance it has to create extreme dissatisfaction. While there are many people unhappy with their communities, there is intensity to the dissatisfaction of those who feel or have felt choked by the rigid impositions of rw/charedi lifestyles.

So they'll vent and release all the emotions bottled inside them. Especially those who cannot freely voice their displeasure. This anonymous board becomes their primarily outlet and they spill out their frustrations. You are reading the pain behind their words.

Their is less freedom and more restrictions in these communities & that results in more pain and less control of the pain release. What you see on this forum is not anyone ganging up on the RW/charedi communities, but an outlet for those who are suffering. And to add some proof to my point, you'll can track those who are levying these 'attacks'. You'll see that its mostly coming from members WITHIN those communities, or those forced out by the community.

Maybe it's time for those communities to do some introspection instead of continuously playing the victim card.

Cheiny

Wed, Nov 21 2018, 9:55 am

Metukah wrote:

Couldn’t agree more! It seems that many times any opinion which is reflective of the Torah, is met with disdain. Sad.