If you run a HS that does not accept every applicant

chestnut

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 11:52 am

Ok, so every school can't accept everyone who applied because of space constraints. True.
BUT what's the reason to accept only A bad B students?? Hardly any HS have sufficient support for weaker students and then say we can't provide support. What happens to all those P3 providers a plenty in elementary schools? All of a sudden those P3 eligible kids all smartened up and don't need assistance? No! Schools must be not interested in having a "name" of being non academic.
The way to do it is to gather all schools BEFORE acceptance letters go out and make sure each girl is appropriately placed. Not AFTER some get multiple rejection letters because of absolute shtussim and feel down.

Oh, and whoever is being bashed for using the word garbage - Don't kill the messenger. She's saying the truth. Case in point - Machon. Have you seen how many people warn NOT to go there? That's the school who accepted everyone.

amother

Red

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 12:01 pm

chestnut wrote:

Because of the space constraints they decide to choose the easier applicants rather than on a first come basis. Sad

eli7

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 12:04 pm

My response was based on the poster using the word to describe Jewish children. I also object to describing any Jewish school as garbage. To defend it as simply describing the "truth" of the situation is to endorse the idea that some schools are garbage and the reason is because they have accepted certain children. What does that say about those children? This is not in any way an acceptable or defensible position.

If the poster meant the comment ironically as a critique of this kind of thinking, she should say so.

amother

cornflower

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 12:50 pm

I’m very glad my kids school doesn’t accept everyone. They accept those who are of the hashkafa of the school (no one else really applies but they do have that policy). I went to a community school that accepted everyone and I was exposed to things that I never should have been, I’m grateful that my children don’t have the same issues. It’s not realistic for a Chassidishe Cheder that is comprised of likeminded parents who don’t have unfiltered internet access and high standards of tznius should be expected to accept students whose families have free internet access and don’t have the same values. It’s just not fair to the rest of the students, I don’t want to have to explain to my 7 year old son that no we will not watch movies like they do in his friends house and no you can not bring home those not tznius picture cards he gave you. That’s not the chinuch I want my child to have. I’m not talking about families that are looking to grow, I’m talking about families who don’t see a problem with the standards that they keep and therefore shouldn’t be attending a school where those standards are expected.

amother

Cerise

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 12:51 pm

Miri1 wrote:

Wouldn't it be amazing if there was a central applications process for each community, which would serve to
A) keep all the institutions on the same schedule, while at the same time
B) acting as a clearing house to make sure every child has his or her place.

This is what the Consortium of Jewish Day Schools (formerly the BJE) does in the New York/New Jersey area for MO schools. Eighth graders take standardized tests, one in limudei chol, one in limudei kodesh. The number of kids who take the test is almost exactly the number of kids who are enrolling in high school. So you know how many applicants you have, and have an objective measurement of academic performance, even if it's not perfect.

The schools in the Consortium don't send out acceptance letters until every single test taker has been placed in a school. The letters all go out the same week.

So the quick answer is, it's absolutely doable. Schools have to be willing to cooperate. One thing that makes it easier for the MO community is that the rate of growth is not as great as in more right-wing communities. Schools expand and new ones open, but not at the rate that they do in Lakewood. Another thing is that the schools are run by boards, and don't have "owners." There's a greater sense of obligation to the community.

The system could be adopted elsewhere, if schools were interested.

amother

Papaya

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:00 pm

amother wrote:

You are correct . My question is , I don't understand people . Why would you apply or want to send your kid to a school that is academically challenging if your kid won't be able to handle it ? Why would you want to send your kid to a school that doesn't align with your hashkafas? I don't want my kids in a school that doesn't allow the moms to wear xyz because I can't commit to that. It's not my hashkafa and I would be creating a constant battle between what my kid is learning in school and what my kid is seeing at home . Now , let's say I am more to the right and I send my kid to a really yeshivish school , No I do not want my kid to have classmates that constantly watch tv and discuss it because I don't have a tv in my home and yes hashkafa is what you teach your kids at home but let's be real. The kids spend more time in school and they learn a lot of things from their friends. Is it such a hard concept to understand that I want my child to be more sheltered and not exposed to things that according to my hashkafa are not okay? We won't have an issue with kids being rejected if people would be more honest with themselves and would only apply to schools that are a better fit for them .

thunderstorm

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:01 pm

amother wrote:

I have news for you. These schools have their hashkafos but there are always people who are dishonest and get themselves into certain schools. Then lo and behold, your child comes home with ALL that info that you were trying to protect him from. That has been my experience . We follow the school rules to the dot and then boom! My kids get a full education anyway !!! So why bother? Then I feel like the schools are all frauds. After seeing this in more than one of my kids schools I believe more and more that schools should have a mix of different backgrounds and then the parents will be able to impart their hashkafos directly to their kids. There's nothing wrong telling your child "we don't do this even though other kids do". It actually prepares them for life better this way.

amother

cornflower

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:06 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

That really depends on the kid and the community, my child goes to a small school and I know all the families in his class and he hasn’t been exposed to anything I don’t want him to know yet. Obviously there are so many aspects of parenting that are beyond the scope of this thread and there are obviously situations that are teaching moments for you to explain that even though they do something, we don’t. But as a general rule, I’m very happy that my child’s classmates families have the same priorities as us and we can be mechanech our children the way we want to.

amother

Silver

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:07 pm

amother wrote:

This is what I was referring to a couple of posts earlier. But I don't think the bolded part is true in Bergen County. While every student will get a spot in a high school, some students don't get an acceptance letter on that day (2/12 this year). I think these students are placed within a month or so of that date. There was an article in the Jewish Link of New Jersey a few weeks back calling for letters to be held back until every student has a spot which I think would be a great idea.

amother

Cerise

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:13 pm

amother wrote:

That could be. I haven't been involved in the last few years. But I do remember the feverish behind the scenes work to make sure everyone had a spot somewhere. I'm sorry to hear that letters are going out too soon. Still, having everyone placed by the beginning of March is pretty good. And I agree with you, there's no communism at work here.

amother

Peach

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:16 pm

amother wrote:

Because of the space constraints they decide to choose the easier applicants rather than on a first come basis. Sad

I would love to know how a high school can admit first come first serve. If they have a day they start accepting applications, all the applications will come that day. So they are still choosing. And most schools have an earlier deadline/beginning day for current or former families.

I agree on principle, but I don't understand how this works in practice. I also agree with an earlier poster that the rate of growth is making things extra hard.

amother

Gray

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:22 pm

amother wrote:

You’re making assumptions that are inaccurate.
Who says people are applying to schools that are a bad fit for their child?
I applied to two schools for my girls. None of them have learning disabilities. Their only chasaron is being average students.
Both schools rejected them-none of these are known to be on a very high academic level.
One of these schools has no space constraints.

Ironically, even though they got rejected due to their non-A student status, my older daughter ended up getting placed by her elementary principal into one of the elite schools here with a reputation as being very rigorous academically.
It is a school I would have never applied to.
When I attend PTA, I can tell that some of the teachers are judging me and making the same false assumptions you are.

amother

Silver

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:23 pm

amother wrote:

I've never been involved in the process, except as a parent of a child in a Bergen Co school. It works partly because the schools are not generally likely to reject a student for "hashkafa reasons".

I had a question about the process: Would a student who attends an elementary school outside the community, who takes the BJE and applies to schools within the consortium be guaranteed a spot also?

imorethanamother

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:30 pm

Every person on this thread who argues for schools being selective should be obligated to watch this video on repeat.

I have heard stories from principals who met with R' Shteinman, who asked if "just in this one case, can we reject this 'bad/garbage/difficult' kid." The upshot? He said, and I'm paraphrasing, "Sure. But if you do reject him, one day you might be held accountable for his sins."

I've seen children destroyed by being rejected from schools. I don't use the term lightly - DESTROYED. And we are so fiercely protective of our own children's precious neshamas, that we forget that by insisting on exclusivity, we are hurting them by teaching them that Jews are not meant to be loved. They are meant to be judged, and found wanting.

We are not educating future leaders. We are enabling division and hatred. That's our new Jewish Educational System. Out of town community schools are our last hope.

amother

Cerise

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:35 pm

amother wrote:

That's the idea. When you take the exam, you're saying that you want to go to one of the schools in the consortium. Now, would an MO school in Teaneck be excited about taking a Satmar kid from Williamsburg? Probably not, because they'd assume something was behind the switch, but my experience leads me to believe that they would make it work.

As to the posters who want schools to be full of kids who all have the same hashkafa: insular thinking is fine if that's your thing, but you're always going to have to deal with people who parent differently. There's always one kid who gets to stay up until ten, and another who's allowed to eat junk food for breakfast. And somehow, you manage to get across the message that different families have different rules. The same can easily apply to watching videos or wearing different clothing. We're not talking about apikorsus here.

amother

Papaya

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:36 pm

amother wrote:

You’re making assumptions that are inaccurate.
Who says people are applying to schools that are a bad fit for their child?
I applied to two schools for my girls. None of them have learning disabilities. Their only chasaron is being average students.
Both schools rejected them-none of these are known to be on a very high academic level.
One of these schools has no space constraints.

Ironically, even though they got rejected due to their non-A student status, my older daughter ended up getting placed by her elementary principal into one of the schools here with a reputation as being very hard academically.
When I attend PTA, I can tell that some of the teachers are judging me and making the same false assumptions you are.

I'm not making any assumptions . If your child was a perfect fit for the school then your child would have been accepted . All I'm saying is you have to be honest with yourself when applying . That's all. I didn't apply to the most yeshivish school where I live because I'm being honest and I realize that it's not a good fit for me and my family . Bottom line is, when applying you have to be honest with yourself . You don't apply to a chassidish school if you aren't the same chassidus as the school . Don't apply to a challenging school if your kid doesn't have the grades for it. Do not apply to a school that is more to the right if it doesn't align with your hashkafos. Of course everyone wants their kid to be in the school that has a good name , but if isn't the right fit for you don't apply .

watergirl

Wed, Feb 20 2019, 1:37 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

You beat me to it.

This trend of being selective is nothing more than gaiiva.

And people think they know more than Rav Shteinman.