Wives of rebbes: an honest answer please!

amother

Aquamarine

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 11:57 am

amother wrote:

No! In any situation with an ongoing relationship with that individual you cannot tip. It leads to bias, unfair practices and other unethical situations. Imagine a therapist that accepted gifts. Or a doctor. They give more time, consideration etc to one patient and ignore you. During your session they are thinking of mr tipper. They spend more time trying to find a solution for his issue and not yours. Let him have a longer session that runs into yours. In our world of kids at risk, kids slipping through the cracks etc- do we want attention and time to be based of BRIBES?

A restaurant is in no way comparable to a school. Do you see that server for several hours a day, 5-6 days a week???
And by the way, TIP used to be an acronym for "to insure promptness". I.e.- give us more money for a better service. Exactly what we don't want in helping professions including teachers!!!

Your doctor, therapist etc.. are getting paid way more than your rebbi.
There is no comparison.
The way to show appreciation to a rebbi is by compensating him adequately.
And yes, you will get better service from doctors you pay privately than Medicaid doctors who earn less.
And if our rebbeim had greater financial security and respected as much as other professionals, they would have more yishuv hadaas to worry about our children, and the position would attract more competent and caring rebbis.

amother

Aquamarine

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 12:08 pm

amother wrote:

How is accepting any large or expensive gift ok? The judges in Tanach were supposed to be, among other qualifications, very wealthy. Because even the "regular wealthy" crowd is not immune to bribes. They were the biggest tzaddikim- why do you think that our teachers, rebbes and Moros are greater than them that they won't be biased for/against those who give??? Yes, there was one story of a teacher handing back $500. How many did accept that check and then think more kindly towards that student/family? They paid a huge bill that month- of course you will smile extra to that kid, give them extra time, compliment them more.... To the detriment of the poor kid or the one who doesn't know this unreasonable demand, I mean custom.
Teachers are supposed to be unbiased. And taking gifts will make you biased. And don't bring up salary: You know the salary going in and chose to work in that field. You get many other side benefits besides salary. Automatically getting off chagim, chol hamoed, days before/after, early erev shabbos, on the same schedule as the kids, summer break, winter break etc.

Clearly you have no clue what being a rebbi entails.
Being available after hours for phone calls from parents, dealing with children with behavioral/learning issues, taking on 2nd and 3rd jobs in order to pay the bills because the pay is so low.
There is no summer break for rebbis-bills have to get paid.
These rebbis take jobs in day camps in the summer.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 12:16 pm

amother wrote:

Not always. I know plenty who make pittance compared to their education. Especially after they don't get any tuition discount. Plus they went to many more years of expensive school with hundreds of thousand of student loans.
Compensation is an agreement with the school- not demanding extra bribes from parents. Doctors who accept Medicaid agree to the financial contract upfront. They made the decision like rebbes do. Whether due to necessity (can't pay bills otherwise, can't get on other contracts) or because they see it as their calling to help the less fortunate- they agreed. You agreed to the compensation package by the school.
They get loads of respect. They get preferencial treatment, extra MM, more community support etc (especially than a middle-income worker). I just don't believe respect is correlated with bribes.

So long as there are more people interested in being a rebbe than spots available- salary will be low. Supply and demand. Higher wage doesn't necessarily attract higher quality.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 12:23 pm

amother wrote:

You have no idea what it takes to work any other job. Work longer hours, after hours, nights and weekends... Not getting paid big bucks. Not taking any time off except chagim. No time to relax- all vacation days go just to YT and not chol hamoed. No summer vacation, no respect, no community support.
ALL jobs have struggles and "problematic parts". That's why it is a JOB.
I work longer hours than any other Rebbe. I do after hours prep work. Unpaid. No vacation.

amother

Aquamarine

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 12:28 pm

amother wrote:

Oy, your attitude is so sad..it’s actually amusing and ironic that you claim rebbis get loads of respect, when your post clearly illustrates that you do not have much respect for them at all.
And btw, I never witnessed my father be on the receiving end of this loads of respect you claim exists.
And it’s not a bribe- it’s appreciation and an implicit understanding that when you pay subsidized tuition (which most parents do), a minimal amount of the compensation is passed onto you.

amother

Slategray

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 12:39 pm

amother wrote:

This is an argument for the MO system. Tuitions are high, but teachers are paid and treated respectably. (To be fair, they are expected to have appropriate degrees.)

There's no tipping. What this means is that there's less chance that a teacher will show preference to a rich kid, and there's also a sense of dignity. Professionals don't get tipped, only service providers do. Isn't it better to see your child's teacher as a professional?

amother

Aquamarine

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 12:42 pm

amother wrote:

If teachers would get paid as professionals, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

ETA: I agree that the system you are describing is ideal.
Do all rebbeim in MO schools have degrees?

amother

Seashell

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 1:06 pm

amother wrote:

I have loads of respect for my kids teachers. I write heartfelt personal notes and tell them often how much I appreciate their work and efforts. I just don't believe respect=money.
Not all parent receive subsidized tuition and it is not the teachers place to know who does or does not pay any tuition amount. If you do, it is clearly a bias against that kid!! Whatever we pay is agreed upon with the SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION. Not individual teachers. The amount I pay does not take away any salary agreed upon for the teachers. It is two calculations and I get no "compensation passed on". They have to raise money to make up the tuition lost but they understood that when they made up tuition obligations for each parent. They knew their debts (salaries, costs) when they make up individual and school wide tuition policies.

It is a bribe. It is clear in Tanach that money sways people, even those who have financial resources of their own. So any gift can change opinions of someone, make you favorable to them etc... It is a bribe even if you don't want to call it that.

By the way, I paid full tuition. Gave to school collection at Channukah (no thank you given, even a general "dear class" note, by the way!). And have no money for cleaning help, vacations, matching clothes for my kids or a name-brand stroller.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 1:44 pm

I was a teacher & did receive $10 checks more than once in student's mm.
I did not treat children differently according to the amount of the tip. Every child was a neshama by me. ( some do)
I had a special needs child in my class who had no help & I overextended myself to be like her personal shadow etc. Mom was so grateful & kept on sending me nice gifts & large amounts of tips, as appreciation. It made me feel uncomfortable.
Teachers get less tips than rebbeim.
I got checks of $10, $12,$18,$20, $25. $36 was already nice amount. $50 was very generous. Only the rich or only children gave that amount. $100 was already way over the top like that special needs child gave.

P.S. my pay was minimal. It was a 24/7 job but only got paid for school hours. I went beyond my call of duty as a teacher. Tried to build up each child to reach their potential besides for all the preps, talking to mothers after hours & having a very hands on & exciting curriculum.
I bh didn't rely on my tips to pay for basic expenses paid, as I wasn't the sole breadwinner for my family. Some teachers were newly weds, their dh in kollel & their paycheck went straight to their rent so they were looking out for their extra money from tips. We didn't get bonus money for a yom tov like some jobs offer.
About off days...worked till bedikas chometz, worked on taanis Esther & every isru chag. Our school policy was that parents pay tuition & don't need their kids home then. Our school had longest school hours for that age compared to all other schools in area.

amother

Slategray

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 2:06 pm

amother wrote:

If teachers would get paid as professionals, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

ETA: I agree that the system you are describing is ideal.
Do all rebbeim in MO schools have degrees?

I couldn't say. I have never heard of someone who didn't have a BA, but I think that there are plenty without a master's degree.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 2:45 pm

Rather a $10 check than a useless gift with no check. As teacher I received stuff that said "best teacher" like plaques, magnets, pic holders, silver miniatures, totes....
Was I supposed to decorate my home with best teacher stuff?
Other useless gifts were blue & yellow vase that didn't match anything in my home.
Tablecloth/place mats that didn't fit my table & didn't match my kitchen or dishes. It was red & blue stripes.
A necklace or watch that wasn't my taste.
A stuffed cubed clown with pics of my student...I didn't have a baby then.

Besides for money, gifts I did use were trays, candy holders, drinking glasses, cake stands, toys for my dc.

livinginflatbus

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 3:50 pm

Dvom, you sound like a wonderful and brave woman for swallowing that incident so graciously!! I think I would feel horrible and embarrassed . Regarding the checks , unfortunately in today’s day and age I do believe the rebbeim expect even a minimal amount . And before the whole debate starts that other jobs work harder and longer .which may be true , a rebbes job is unique. Their shaping and molding young lives , there’s nothing like that .

keym

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 4:02 pm

amother wrote:

Here's the thing. Some of what you use, I consider useless. I have no need for cake stands or candy holders. But mugs, I can always use.
The other thing is that gift I bought, my kid usually helped pick out. We went to the gift store and he chose the "world's best teacher" magnet. Can't you appreciate that
Lastly, I don't want to give the value of the gift because I spent $2.50 on clearance for that candy dish. Giving a check for $2.50 is pathetic, but giving a candy dish with candies inside look nice.
I try my hardest. But 5 kids equals 7 teachers, 2 assistants, 3 Rebbes, 3 ei therapists, 6 bus drivers, 1 aftercare babysitter... There is no way I can give $10 to each of them plus a nice chocolate plus a nice bottle.

amother

Mustard

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 4:19 pm

I always do appreciate the thought behind any gift from a student. And while gift cards (my student population doesn't do outright cash, usually) are very nice to get, I can honestly say my most memorable and favorite ones were ones that I could tell were picked out and purchased with me in mind. For example, last year I happened to mention to my class that I enjoy doing puzzles. At the end of the year, a kid gave me a 1,000 piece puzzle. It made me feel so good! Sometimes parents have done pinterest inspired theme baskets, where clearly the items came from the bargain bins at Target, but they were put together with so much care, they really looked nice and made me feel good. Knowing the parent took time out to make up something nice is different than getting what might be an obligatory monetary gift. And I do have cutesy little #1 teacher knickknacks that I keep on my desk at school to make it look nice.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Mar 17 2019, 4:21 pm

By telling the people here what was appreciated is as a tip of what to give to teachers. I appreciated every student that came to my house & didn't expect anything & all was nice. I'm trying to give advice that if you are spending $10 on a plaque that has a nice poem on it, rather write a handwritten note & give a check of $10. It will be more appreciated.
Yes sometimes you can find a dish for $3 which shows as more money so you are coming out cheaper than a $10 check, it is at least something that can be useful.
Buying a best teacher teddy bear for $10 is not so useful.
A vase that has light blue & yellow flowers that matches nothing in my house is not so useful.