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Just wondering....re: vaxxing
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amother




Peach


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:11 pm
I'm wondering why pro vax people are so afraid to hear the other side. I went to the event in Ateres Charna sponsored by Refuah health center in the new square. I wanted to hear what they've got to offer. Why are pro vax people so afraid of going to a pro choice event
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Sebastian




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:13 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
I'm wondering why pro vax people are so afraid to hear the other side. I went to the event in Ateres Charna sponsored by Refuah health center in the new square. I wanted to hear what they've got to offer. Why are pro vax people so afraid of going to a pro choice event


I'm not afraid. I just have no interest in wasting my time. I'm pretty sure I know what they'll argue and I know the answers to their arguments.
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delicious




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:15 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
I'm wondering why pro vax people are so afraid to hear the other side. I went to the event in Ateres Charna sponsored by Refuah health center in the new square. I wanted to hear what they've got to offer. Why are pro vax people so afraid of going to a pro choice event


I'm not afraid. I'm not interested. Because as I wrote before, this is not about if I agree to vaxing and not vaxing. This is about staying safe, and respecting everyone's decision. Please respect mine and quarantine yourself if you are exposed.
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amother




Peach


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:15 pm
southernbubby wrote:
I don't think that anyone denies that some vaccinated people still get measles and that sick people need to be isolated but obviously we need to get the message out there.

Then why isn't the message out yet? DOH is very capable of getting out whatever messages they want
Instead of harrassing unvaccinated people, where is the Tzim Gezint booklet talking about what measles symptoms look like, how to isolate yourself, how much vitamin A to take, how to make sure the virus has left the body completely in order for all these horrid after effects that they scare you with shouldn't happen
I think that's a good way of protecting the immuno compromised and protecting children in general
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delicious




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:21 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
Then why isn't the message out yet? DOH is very capable of getting out whatever messages they want
Instead of harrassing unvaccinated people, where is the Tzim Gezint booklet talking about what measles symptoms look like, how to isolate yourself, how much vitamin A to take, how to make sure the virus has left the body completely in order for all these horrid after effects that they scare you with shouldn't happen
I think that's a good way of protecting the immuno compromised and protecting children in general


WHAT A WAY TO SHIFT THE BLAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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amother




Peach


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:25 pm
delicious wrote:
WHAT A WAY TO SHIFT THE BLAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That goes both ways.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:33 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
Pro vax cherry picking. You probably didn't read a thing of the discussion you responded to just jumped at the words that pro vax doesn't have a clue


Certainly not. I've been involved in various vax threads and have posted at several points in this thread. Moreover, I follow as much as I can reputable studies on vaccine research. I am trained to evaluate research.

I know exactly what your argument was above, and it doesn't make much sense. You were trying to make the argument that because you know you're not vaxxed, you, in contrast to vaxxers, are looking out for measles symptoms. It's a ridiculous argument because anti-vax people frequently argue that measles isn't dangerous, and having it is a good thing. Pro-vax people are aware of the danger of measles, know that not all of the population is immune even under the best circumstances, and therefore monitor carefully for measles symptoms.
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amother




Peach


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:43 pm
I know of a five month old yet to be vaccinated baby from a pro vax family who exposed an entire anti vax family over Pesach. The baby shouldve been immune from his mother's breast milk, which is besides the point, but unfortunately the mom got an MMR instead of the natural measles so she couldn't pass on the antibodies. Anyhow, point is that families who vaccinate aren't exempt from isolating sick children and that's not the education and information we are getting. I'm not sure how stupid one has to be to see that the propaganda doesn't match up
Also,
I for one, am concerned about being 80 yrs old, with a possibly waned immunity from the MMR. I hope to have grandchildren with measles jump all over me. And I would love to help them out worry free like my dad and mom were able to help me with my measling kids (they're too old to have gotten the vaccine)
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Sebastian




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:47 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
I know of a five month old yet to be vaccinated baby from a pro vax family who exposed an entire anti vax family over Pesach. The baby shouldve been immune from his mother's breast milk, which is besides the point, but unfortunately the mom got an MMR instead of the natural measles so she couldn't pass on the antibodies. Anyhow, point is that families who vaccinate aren't exempt from isolating sick children and that's not the education and information we are getting. I'm not sure how stupid one has to be to see that the propaganda doesn't match up
Also,
I for one, am concerned about being 80 yrs old, with a possibly waned immunity from the MMR. I hope to have grandchildren with measles jump all over me. And I would love to help them out worry free like my dad and mom were able to help me with my measling kids (they're too old to have gotten the vaccine)


you don't get immunity from measles from nursing. it comes from the uterus.
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amother




Peach


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:49 pm
Sebastian wrote:
you don't get immunity from measles from nursing. it comes from the uterus.

My DOCTOR who is PRO VAX told me otherwise.
Point is that natural immunity is passed on and MMR not
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:50 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
Then why isn't the message out yet? DOH is very capable of getting out whatever messages they want
Instead of harrassing unvaccinated people, where is the Tzim Gezint booklet talking about what measles symptoms look like, how to isolate yourself, how much vitamin A to take, how to make sure the virus has left the body completely in order for all these horrid after effects that they scare you with shouldn't happen
I think that's a good way of protecting the immuno compromised and protecting children in general


The studies on Vitamin A show some protection under very limited circumstances. It is most protective in babies under two years old in communities where Vitamin A deficiency is widespread. Even there, while the studies show that mortality is significantly reduced (by 81% for two successive doses of 200,000 IU of Vitamin A in water-based preparation, and by 48% if in oil-based preparation), there has not been demonstration of reduced incidence of encephalitis or SSPE. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11869601/

But this is if there is Vitamin A deficiency. If people are not Vitamin A deficient -- and they generally are not in the US -- the benefit is much, much smaller.

AFAIK, it has not been shown that the devastating consequences of measles can be prevented by Vitamin A in our population. If you can show differently, please cite the relevant studies.


Last edited by JoyInTheMorning on Mon, May 13 2019, 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:57 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
I'm wondering why pro vax people are so afraid to hear the other side. I went to the event in Ateres Charna sponsored by Refuah health center in the new square. I wanted to hear what they've got to offer. Why are pro vax people so afraid of going to a pro choice event


I am not afraid but:

1) I am not interested in being lied to.
2) I am already vaccinated
3) Nobody should have the choice to make someone else sick
4) I like arguing with people on imamother but if I go out, I want to hear something interesting.
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amother




Violet


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:58 pm
delicious wrote:
And Violet, seriously, why can't you guys abide by ONE request to stay quarantined???


Lol measles didn't come to us and had it come, we would stay quarantined. Saying it as a blanket statement that anti vaxxers don't stay quarantined is wrong. Many do.
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amother




Purple


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 1:58 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
I know of a five month old yet to be vaccinated baby from a pro vax family who exposed an entire anti vax family over Pesach. The baby shouldve been immune from his mother's breast milk, which is besides the point, but unfortunately the mom got an MMR instead of the natural measles so she couldn't pass on the antibodies. Anyhow, point is that families who vaccinate aren't exempt from isolating sick children and that's not the education and information we are getting. I'm not sure how stupid one has to be to see that the propaganda doesn't match up
Also,
I for one, am concerned about being 80 yrs old, with a possibly waned immunity from the MMR. I hope to have grandchildren with measles jump all over me. And I would love to help them out worry free like my dad and mom were able to help me with my measling kids (they're too old to have gotten the vaccine)


The anti vax family must have been so appreciative for the natural exposure that they've been hoping for, no?
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amother




Peach


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 2:04 pm
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
The anti vax family must have been so appreciative for the natural exposure that they've been hoping for, no?

They weren't exactly too upset about it honestly. The problem was that the mom didn't get measles as a child so she wasn't immune. It's pretty tough to 'measle' together with kids. So she wasn't actively looking for exposure.
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amother




Purple


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 2:07 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
They weren't exactly too upset about it honestly. The problem was that the mom didn't get measles as a child so she wasn't immune. It's pretty tough to 'measle' together with kids. So she wasn't actively looking for exposure.


A major part of being anti vax is preferring natural immunity. After all, they believe measles is not a big deal. So they must have been so thankful for the opportunity. Better for the mother to get measles now than as an even older adult, right?
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 2:12 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
I know of a five month old yet to be vaccinated baby from a pro vax family who exposed an entire anti vax family over Pesach. The baby shouldve been immune from his mother's breast milk, which is besides the point, but unfortunately the mom got an MMR instead of the natural measles so she couldn't pass on the antibodies. Anyhow, point is that families who vaccinate aren't exempt from isolating sick children and that's not the education and information we are getting. I'm not sure how stupid one has to be to see that the propaganda doesn't match up
Also,
I for one, am concerned about being 80 yrs old, with a possibly waned immunity from the MMR. I hope to have grandchildren with measles jump all over me. And I would love to help them out worry free like my dad and mom were able to help me with my measling kids (they're too old to have gotten the vaccine)


The current outbreak has taught us that we need to check titers and re-immunize if necessary and to recognize the signs and symptoms of diseases.
If a family is anti-vax, we assume that they don't mind catching VPDs so why bother to protect them?
I am not sure that it's true that babies whose mothers had measles, never come down with measles. Some are just unlucky. In third world countries, where fewer people are vaccinated, babies are dying of it. Someone should do a study to see if vaccinating mothers affects infant mortality rates.
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Sebastian




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 2:19 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
My DOCTOR who is PRO VAX told me otherwise.
Point is that natural immunity is passed on and MMR not


MMR immunity is passed on but natural immunity lasts a drop longer (one study showed mmr immunity lasted 3 mo and natural lasted 5 mo- not a huge difference)
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 2:19 pm
The argument that natural immunity is passed down to infants is also faulty because as far as I have heard it depends on women exclusively breastfeeding their infants. This is not always possible. (Before I get attacked: As it happens, I exclusively breastfed for a long time. But I was extraordinarily fortunate that I was able to do so.) Some women can't breastfeed at all. Some women can't produce enough milk. Some women work and don't have pumping breaks. Some women work but can't let down for the pump. Some women need to travel for their work.

So what happens to the infants of those women? Do they not count because you don't approve of the lifestyle or milk-producing abilities of their mothers?
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delicious




 
 
 


Post  Mon, May 13 2019, 3:41 pm
amother [ Violet ] wrote:
Lol measles didn't come to us and had it come, we would stay quarantined. Saying it as a blanket statement that anti vaxxers don't stay quarantined is wrong. Many do.


BH you guys did not get it.
I was talking to the most of anti vaxxers. You need to quarantine from the moment of exposure (say, a measles party), not from the moment symptoms show up. And there is, from what I understand, a period of time between the two.


Last edited by delicious on Mon, May 13 2019, 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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