Fancy siyums in the nine days

amother

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 1:07 am

I know it’s allowed according to Halacha.

But it feels so wrong

Bungalow colonies have someone “save” their siyum for the nine days so they can host this massive bbq with meats they don’t see all summer or year.

Thoughts?

agreer

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 1:51 am

I have no problem with the Mesayem "saving" his siyum for the 9 days. I think it's crazy to invite random strangers just so they could eat, but if he has anything to do with the other colony members, or if some of them learned together, then why not? No problem at all.

amother

White

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 2:43 am

The whole concept of not eating meat during the 9 days should be reevaluated. Years ago, men would work and set money aside so they can buy meat for shabbos. Meat was considered very chashuv. This simply isn't the case anymore, especially for some meats. Hotdogs and burgers are considered cheap. It doesn't make sense that I can eat a fancy piece of salmon or make a nice quiche, but I can't eat a chicken nugget. Sorry, it literally makes no sense.

amother

Denim

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 4:34 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

The whole "no laundry" rule doesn't make a lot of sense either, in a society where people put on freshly washed clothes every day. But that's life. Once these things are established as signs of mourning, that's what they are. Now, I think it's best not to go overboard with fancy milchigs food in a time of mourning, either. We don't have to go overboard, but we should recognize the spirit of the season.

etky

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 6:38 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

However, regarding bathing/showering the practice has changed in accordance with modern sensiblities and allowances are made. So why not laundry and the custom of not eating meat?

amother

Oak

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 7:05 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My husband told me that one is not supposed to save their Siyum for the Nine Days.

amother

Violet

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 7:19 am

We don’t save siyums.
But I did hear if there is a legit siyum you shouldn’t push it off to show chashivus of Torah. Having a minyan there always enhances a siyum.
DH finished a mesechta yesterday. I’m wondering what to do with it ....

etky

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 7:32 am

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

You should definitely ask.
There are different shitot but from what I've read it's different if he just finished the masechet now during the nine days.
Still, there are various opinions about how many people to invite.

amother

Lime

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 8:46 am

You should have a problem with it, since most of the time it's completely not supported by halacha. Someone can make a siyum in the nine days with meat if he doesn't time it to end davka in the nine days, and if he typically celebrates a siyum with meat. He should also not be inviting more people than he normally would. The vast majority of nine days siyums don't meet those criteria and are probably not allowed.

JoyInTheMorning

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 8:53 am

I agree that this seems to me creating a loophole for no good reason, and explicitly negating the spirit of the nine days. But many, including the chaf-K and Chabad, feel it's okay. To each their own. I'm just surprised that anyone feels the need to do it. The 9 days includes at least one Shabbat, which means two days that you can eat meat (Friday at night and Shabbat during the day) and one fast day when you can't eat anything. Is it so hard to abstain from beef or chicken for six days, especially nowadays when there are so many fish choices available? I don't even notice it as a hardship.

etky

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:15 am

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

I would hope that those who do eat meat at the siyum do so from the viewpoint that values Torah learning davka during this period and also anticipates the transformation of the 9 days from a time of mourning to one of rejoicing and thus the festive, fleishigs menu. Otherwise, the concept of hoidng an elaborate siyum davka during the nine days solely for the pleasure of eating meat is really distasteful. It also makes a mockery of the halachic system that does allow loopholes in halacha when really necessary: on issues like shmitta, Pesach, eruv etc. that otherwise would impose a real hardship on people's lives. IMO creating an indulgent loophole for such a trivial 'hardship' does damage to the entire system.

PinkFridge

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 9:36 am

I'm trying to remember who I heard say this. Maybe Rabbi Kallus. I think I read this somewhere too.
Don't make a nicer siyum during the 9 days than during the rest of the year. Have meat for a siyum the rest of the year.

This might be the opportunity for other 9 Days pet peeves - 9 Days carnivals, Chinese Auctions, parlor meetings and other fundraisers with mega gashmiyus, etc.

Tell your kids, no slurpees this week. Or only small, not medium or large. That makes a statement.

amother

Wheat

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:30 am

If this is the only way to get people to learn Torah, its at least something. Obviously this is the level were at. In the olden times meat wasn't eaten very often, once a month if you're extremely rich maybe maybe every Shabbat. Today if we need a siyum once in the middle of the 9 days to get twice a day meat eaters through, and you get someone to sit down to learn, like I said this is the level and Hashem loves ahavas yisrael more. If you are at a higher level it shouldn't be your goal but it is what it is.

amother

Firebrick

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:33 am

DH was invited to a fancy siyum. He asked his Rav if he's allowed to go. The Rav said that one is only allowed to eat meat at a siyum if he was part of the learning. Like this person's chavrusa or in the same shuir. But you can't just go to a siyum to eat meat.

amother

Lime

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:44 am

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

.
Is there any halachic basis for this? Hashem certainly loves ahavas yisrael but the ends don't justify the means.

allthingsblue

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 10:58 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

Are we really unable to go nine days without meat? Yes, you're allowed to eat meat after a siyum. But it shows a real disregard for the spirit of the nine days. We're supposed to be in mourning for the churban.

If it's halachically allowed, then it's obviously not a disregard for the spirit of the nine days. I think there are parameters though, and I certainly agree that over-the-top food is not in the right spirit.

realsilver

Sun, Aug 04 2019, 11:06 am

I remember my father saying that according to his rebbe, we davka do make a siyum in the 9 days. and since a siyum is so chashuv, we should go all out and eat fleishigs., make a fancy meal and so on.
the problem is really the rest of the year when we dont give a siyum the honor it deserves.