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What do I need to know about pitbulls? (pg4 update)
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amother




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Post  Sun, Sep 22 2019, 7:19 pm
Ok so I take it back about goldens. We know labrador retrievers and I thought, seemingly mistakenly, that goldens were the same.
Labrador Retrievers are THE family dog.
And yes, every dog demands lots of excellent training.
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Amarante




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Sep 22 2019, 7:19 pm
Pit bulls or dogs that some genetic pit bull in them are not the best choice for people who aren’t really familiar with dogs and dog training. There are some great sweet pit bulls but genetically there are breeds which are much more likely to be great family pets especially for families who haven’t trained a lot of dogs.

As others have suggested, Golden Retrievers make wonderful family dogs especially for those who don’t have much dog experience.

I have to put in a good word for all of the poodle cross breeds as most of them are absolutely wonderful family dogs. I have friends who have had cockapoos, golden-doodles, Maltipoos and others with poodle genes . An advantage to the poodle mixtures is the same advantage poodles have in that they don’t shed and generally can be around people who are ordinarily allergic to dogs. Also dogs with the short snouts of the pit bulls sometimes have respiratory issues because of the anatomy of their noses. Because of their popularity, it is extremely hard to find the poodle mixes in a shelter and at least where I am the shelters seem to be full of some type of pit bull mixture at least judging from their looks.

I would be especially hesitant to get a pit bull at a shelter since you don’t know what kind of experience the dog has had. Unfortunately there are lots of idiots who get pit bulls and don’t train them well or treat them so they learn to be aggressive.

Obviously the way a dog looks is a factor in making one’s heart melt. I am a dog person but I find the poodle mixes much more endearing in looks than the pit bulls but obviously that is personal as I have had two wonderful poodle mixes.

Whatever you do, I would suggest researching breeds thoroughly in terms of which ones are good around children; which ones need lots of exercise and free roaming to be at their best; which are easier to train and use those as guidelines rather than than base your choice of a new family member on what your DH thinks will look good as a jogging companion.


Last edited by Amarante on Sun, Sep 22 2019, 7:45 pm; edited 2 times in total
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MitzadSheini




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Sep 22 2019, 7:34 pm
They are illegal in Australia as well, with good reason.
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chanatron1000




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Sep 22 2019, 7:56 pm
Mutts are the best dogs. They are healthier because they are not inbred, and there are plenty of them available for adoption.
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amother




Smokey


Post  Sun, Sep 22 2019, 8:24 pm
I don't have time to read thru the thread, but as a young married woman dh & I lived next door to a family with a pitbull.
We heard terrible screams from outside one day; our upstairs neighbor had been walking outside & was mauled by the pitbull. The dog refused to let go of the man's arm. (The man was a very quiet person & wouldn't have antagonized the dog in any way).
It was a horrific scene & tbh I was terrified to take my child outside after that.
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amother




Coffee


Post  Sun, Sep 22 2019, 8:39 pm
I worked in animal hospitals and we had a no pit bull policy.

A friend of the family had three pit bulls as pets. They used to come to my house quiet often. I worked with dogs and am a dog lover but was always on guard when they came to my house.
I know they were friendly but one time I gave one of them chicken to eat and my 4 yr old son got too close to the dog and the dog started growling because it thought he was taking his food. I grabbed my son so fast and left the room.
Even a friendly pit bull is not the best choice for kids.
Also think about if their friends would want to come to your house.
Any dog could turn but when you hear about a dog attack it is usually a pit bull.
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turca




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Sep 22 2019, 8:49 pm
About any dog ( I’ve had many types of dogs and I currently own 2 dogs): even the most docile, harmless dog could get annoyed at a child grabbing it out of nowhere or simply another dog sitting around or whatever. A dog might simply react by biting. I once grabbed a newborn puppy from my beloved Doberman: she did nothing, I was about 5 or 6 years old. Around the same period of time, I remember serving food to my yummy clumsy beagle and I decided that I had put too much into his food bowl. So grabbed some food back. I got bitten. The dog didn’t try to rip off my finger, he let it go right away.
Since u don’t know dogs, do not get a pit bull nor a Doberman. Be aware that silly dogs like golden retrievers and beagle could react by biting.
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lavenderchimes




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Sep 22 2019, 9:08 pm
I have a cousin who adopted a pit bull. He is the sweetest, most lovable dog. I don't think they are bred to be nasty, or anything like that – I think that is all in the training. But the special don't-let-go bite they have WAS bred – it's in the way their mouth is shaped. And this is why they are the best dogs to train for fights, which is why so many train them to fight, which is why they are responsible for the vast majority of bites, IMO. That being said ... I wouldn't personally get a pitbull. I adopted a lab mix whose mother was rescued the day before she gave birth to the pups. She spent 8 weeks in a loving Foster home with her mother and siblings before I brought her home to Brooklyn. If you're going to adopt a pit, I would look for one like this – a dog with NO baggage, and ZERO chance of having been previously trained to fight and kill, that you can train from a pup. I would not take the risk of a full grown dog with an unknown background with kids in the house.

You know, labs are energetic, and medium-big, and very, very doggy. You have So many good options!

I would not be afraid of your dog, but I don't have problems with dogs, because I grew up with them. However, there is an issue of it causing your friends and neighbors anxiety, as was mentioned above. This is actually a Torah issue. Maybe you and Dh should discuss it with a Rav.
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Ruchel




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 23 2019, 4:13 am
Yes, I understad (though I don't agree). But think: can you give him the best education? pay for training with a specialist? and be ok with the potential risk any dog had PLUS this breed?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 23 2019, 4:45 am
I love, love, LOVE dogs, and pibbles can be wonderful pets. BUT, I think they need to be in very experienced hands. They could have a great temperament, but the sheer muscle on them makes them difficult to handle, and being part of the bull dog family can make them very stubborn.

I second everyone who said to get a rescue mutt. You want a dog from a shelter that evaluates each dog for personality traits, and hopefully knows a little bit from the previous owners who surrendered it.

You want a dog who is at least a year old. Starting with a puppy is cute, but it's an insane amount of work, and they are bundles of energy. It's like having a toddler running around with a chainsaw. Everything in sight will be destroyed. Older dogs are less likely to be adopted, so you'll be saving a life. Puppies get snatched up every day, so don't get drawn in by those sad eyes.

Every breed has it's pro's and cons. Toy breeds can be nippy and prone to fear-biting. Working dogs have endless energy and need a big yard. Terriers are stubborn and do not take well to obedience work.

The average Border Collie is smarter than you are, and should have access to large amounts of sheep or cows. Pugs are hysterically funny, but absolutely untrainable. Standard Poodles and Portuguese Water Dogs don't shed, are very intelligent, and are very easy to train. They live to please.

Newfoundlands (Newfies) are very sweet and laid back dogs. I hope you enjoy spinning yarn, because you'll be up to your eyeballs in hair. Huskies are escape artists, and want nothing more than to jump the fence, dig under the fence, and run away as fast as possible.

I bred and showed Australian Shepherds for over 10 years, and got to know all the other breed groups as well. AMA, I love to talk about dogs! (as if you haven't figured that out by now.)
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zaq




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 23 2019, 5:46 am
Please,please, please no. Pit bulls are bred specifically to be viciously aggressive. They are killers by design and they can suddenly attack anyone, including their loving owners, no matter how docile they appear to be. Too many tragedies involving this breed. Owning them should be illegal and I can’t understand why it isn’t. And you have children, yet! No offense but your dh needs a good swift smack upside the head for even considering such a “pet”. May as well buy a grenade with a faulty pin. .
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amother




Oak


Post  Mon, Sep 23 2019, 5:49 am
Pitbulls have been exploited by terrible people for fighting and that gave them a terrible name. They used to be considered the classic American dog. They're intelligent and loyal. You always have to be careful when you have children and are adopting a rescue pet based on its history, but I would absolutely adopt a pitbull if I wasn't concerned about its history and could afford to adopt another dog.

We have two of the sweetest Greyhound rescues. Greyhounds are the most docile dogs, bred to race, unfortunately exploited and abused in the races. In Australia, people are scared of them and there are also laws about muzzling them, even though they're so friendly, they cannot even be trusted to protect the house. (They'd likely try to become best friends with anyone trespassing, or just choose to ignore them and nap.) Laws sometimes cater to people's fears and not reality. I notice no one trash talking pitbulls has personally owned one.

As to a dog warning off a child coming too close to its food, sorry but duh. Every parent exposing their children to an animal needs to teach their children how to behave with animals.

Dogs are pack minded. You are either alpha to them or they are alpha to you. When you get a dog, you train them to learn that you and all human family members are alpha, and unless you're an alpha, there are certain things you would never do. One should never go up to a dog that isn't theirs and attempt to interfere with their food. You shouldn't let your children get too close to a dog's food while they're eating. The dog probably doesn't perceive your child as alpha and the child is getting in its personal space while it's eating. Growling is a warning; it may sound scary to a child but it's really the dog's way of communicating because it cannot use words. The same way if a neighbor's child at the Shabbat table might start getting up in my personal space; I might say excuse me. And I might apply a different boundary to my own child than to the neighbour's child. Dogs have a different mode of communication (they make noises instead of using words) and perhaps a different sense of personal space while eating, but it's still predictable.

If DH or I pulled the bowl away from one of our dogs, they wouldn't attack or growl because we are both solidly alpha in their pack (we obviously wouldn't do that because it's mean). But if a stranger came over and started pulling at their food they might growl. Or maybe not; they're greyhounds, but they're still more likely to growl at and resist a stranger than an alpha in their pack. One of our dogs is alpha to the other, and they would warn and ultimately perhaps even bite the other, if the other tried to take their food. (Our non-alpha is generally smart enough to immediately back off if warned.)
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 23 2019, 5:52 am
Many pre-screened, housebroken dogs here, available immediately for adoption: https://www.facebook.com/groups/862791027114907/

Just be careful with any dog who is Canaani or Canaani mix. They are half-wild dogs, and have a very particular personality. They can be hard to train, and rambunctious. They need a very large yard, and a firm, consistent hand in training.
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amother




Honeydew


Post  Mon, Sep 23 2019, 6:54 am
amother [ Oak ] wrote:
Laws sometimes cater to people's fears and not reality. I notice no one trash talking pitbulls has personally owned one.



We can argue why the law was established. But fact is, Rappel lives in Israel (I think?) and the law is that dangerous breeds (including pitbulls) must wear a muzzle whenever they are in public or in the vicinity of anyone under 16.

Do you think it's fair to adopt a dog that will need to be muzzled most of his life?

What's the point of owning a dog, if he can't jump on the kids, sniff them and lick them?
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amother




Honeydew


Post  Mon, Sep 23 2019, 7:03 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
Many pre-screened, housebroken dogs here, available immediately for adoption: https://www.facebook.com/groups/862791027114907/

Just be careful with any dog who is Canaani or Canaani mix. They are half-wild dogs, and have a very particular personality. They can be hard to train, and rambunctious. They need a very large yard, and a firm, consistent hand in training.


The Canaani dog is Israel's national breed. They are considered super healthy, super loyal, smart dogs.
https://www.ynet.co.il/article......html

They can be amazing dogs. But you are right, they need an assertive owner, and best someone who is not a novice with dogs.

One of the best places to look for a dog in Israel is Yad4:

https://yad4.co.il/
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amother




Pink


Post  Mon, Sep 23 2019, 8:06 am
and any large dog does need plenty of room to run and exercise daily and frequently

true that most if not all puppies will chew and ruin stuff, furniture, shoes, and the like.

its a lot of work to have a pet, and money think feeding and medical.

(newfoundlands are HUGE dogs -- its a rare family that can have one and take care of them)

and dogs bark -- at night, early morning, and other times.

some smell, grab food, the list goes on...

it can get really complicated with shabbos and Y"T with guests and with going out or going away as in who is going to take care of your pet and board etc its a huge responsibility.
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zaq




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 23 2019, 9:15 am
Op posted : I've read about how a pit can be perfectly friendly, and then turn around and kill another dog in seconds.

Right. They can also turn on people including their owners and their owners’ children. This breed of dog has been deliberately bred to kill, no matter how sweet and friendly it may appear to you. Too many tragedies associated with this breed. Bringing a pit bull into your house is like bringing in a loaded gun with a hair trigger and no safety catch. Don’t do it.
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sequoia




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 23 2019, 10:14 am
FranticFrummie wrote:

The average Border Collie is smarter than you are


So it CAN solve a Rubik’s cube?
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chanatron1000




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 23 2019, 12:38 pm
A dog being dangerous isn't just about its demeanor, it's also about size and strength. A mean-spirited teacup size Pomeranian can't do much damage, but a dog with the same behaviors in a larger size or more muscular build can seriously hurt someone.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Sep 23 2019, 2:48 pm
chanatron1000 wrote:
A dog being dangerous isn't just about its demeanor, it's also about size and strength. A mean-spirited teacup size Pomeranian can't do much damage, but a dog with the same behaviors in a larger size or more muscular build can seriously hurt someone.


More people are bitten by toy breeds every year, than all the larger breeds put together. Golden Cocker Spaniels are the worst, because they have a gene defect that makes them go into "biting fits".

Of course, big dogs are the ones that make the news, because they are deadlier due to size and strength. Nobody gets nibbled to death by a Chihuahua.
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