Why do you consider me selfish?

ora_43

Mon, May 11 2020, 12:05 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The only thing you won't admit is that many people go out, and don't get sick. While people that are locked up, still get sick.
But let's continue living in a bubble.

I'm not sure how you got this from my post (or are you quoting me by accident?). I was just joking about the "if everyone jumped off a bridge..." discussion at the beginning.

I have never denied that some people go out and don't get sick.

I do deny that there are people who are 100% locked up, with no deliveries from outside, and still getting sick. Complete isolation would provide 100% protection. It's just that most people can't isolate 100%, so there are still opportunities here and there to pick up the virus.

ora_43

Mon, May 11 2020, 12:22 pm

I don't think it's selfish to want to visit elderly relatives. It's natural. It's hard to say 'no' because you care so much, not because you're selfish.

It's even good to look for ways to make it happen, while still keeping risks to a minimum (and a few posters have suggested ways of doing that - balcony-to-ground 'visit,' visiting outdoors with masks on, etc).

The problem is with the justifications you're giving. It's not that what you want is bad, but your reasoning for why you should have it, is.

amother

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:05 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

OP - do you think 'social distancing' is a hoax?

I was very skeptical about it from the beginning.
To be honest, yes, I think its a hoax.

When officials are getting their paychecks, and tell us no work or school, its a scam.

When they tell us to wear masks for "OUR protection", yet they dont wear it themselves, its a scam.

Like Bestbubby said: It's not reasonable or possible to have everyone locked up 100%.

Ora: We already have enough beds, if that was their real concern!!

DrMom

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:20 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

SD = keeping physically separated from others so that in case you are infected and contagious, you don't get others sick.

Knowing the most basic aspects of how viruses are transmitted, I don't see how anyone could think this is a "scam."

When you are sick with the cold or flu, do you usually cough in people's faces? Do you cover your mouth when sneezing?
Do you send your kids to school when they are sick?

I'm guessing (hoping) not. Why? Because you know that you can get other people sick that way. So when you are sick, you *do* practice SD. This is nothing new.

Same thing with covid-19; the difference is that you can be contagious far before you are symptomatic, so we are encouraged to SD all the time (staying >2m away from others).

Why do you believe in SD for the flu or common cold but not covid-19?

amother

Ginger

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:46 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Okay. I got the sense through out this you felt this way.

amother

Mon, May 11 2020, 3:09 pm

DrMom wrote:

When did I say you have to sneeze or cough into ppls faces?

FYI I always keep away from peoples faces, and breath, I don't kiss at simchas...
I dont touch my face when Im cooking, or outside. I brush my teeth after every meal, and before I go outside. I didnt wait for the virus to practice normal hygiene.

I am talking about the idea of keeping kids home, yet they play with their neighbors.
Closing stores, but keeping open public transportation.
Allowing delivery workers to deliver shoes, yet not allowing a store to be open (even with limited ppl, and masks)
Allowing flights to be open, yet not allowing people to attend a funeral..
It just doesnt add up.

I never said that there isnt a virus. We have to be careful just like the flu or anything else. It doesnt make sense to sit home and wait.. When half of the population is outside, this won't be over anytime soon.

DrMom

Mon, May 11 2020, 3:21 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You said SD = a hoax.
The things you listed are not SD.

These are specific policy decisions.
If that's what you are talking about then say so.

amother

Mon, May 11 2020, 4:35 pm

DrMom wrote:

You said SD = a hoax.
The things you listed are not SD.

These are specific policy decisions.
If that's what you are talking about then say so.

Keeping the stores closed and kids home is not SD?What are YOU talking about?

Face it - half of our population is doing it, the other half is not.
We can't get rid of a virus, if people are still passing it back and forth.

DrMom

Mon, May 11 2020, 4:59 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I mean that the fact that NYC is applying stupid and inconsistent rules does not negate the legitimacy of SD as a means of reducing virus transmission.

amother

Yellow

Mon, May 11 2020, 5:23 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It's not a hoax at all . Diseases are transmitted when you are in close contact with others . Brushing your teeth like you stater won't stop you from catching the flu if someone with the flu sneezed on you .
Now yes were supposed to keep kids home and that means not allowing them to play with friends or neighbors .
These flights that you speak of are not meant for leisure flights . People should not be flying now but they are there for emergencies.
Public transportation also should not be used but there are many essential workers that need transportation. How will the drs and nurses get to work without it ? Public transportation isnt meant for people to use just to go somewhere that isnt essential . It's also for people that need to buy essential groceries or people that need to get to the pharmacy . All these things that you listed that are open are open because it's necessary not because sd is a hoax. They cant close groceries because people need food so the only way to keep them open is to allow few people in at the same time and for people to wear masks.
I dont know why you think sd is a hoax. When you're sick with the flu you stay home . This is exactly the same . I sure hope you stay home when you have the flu ...

amother

Mon, May 11 2020, 7:18 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

Again. I did not say this is a way to prevent the virus!
I said I stay far from people's breath all year long. Maybe its a form of OCD, but I dont like going close to peoples mouth in general.

Now obviously, if someone has the flu or if I do, we stay home! I'm talking in normal situations.

And the flights that are open are not being used for emergencies only! Look how full they are, and ask around how many went on vacation now.

You can say it's not right, I can agree, but its a fact. People are going to do whatever they need to survive.

The virus is no hoax. The idea HOW we are doing "SD" is. Like I said several times already, if the country is not practicing it, by shutting down everything, it's a waste of time.

amother

Ginger

Mon, May 11 2020, 7:29 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

SD was never about getting rid of the virus, it was about slowing down the rate of new cases.... which basic logic suggests - if fewer people are 'out and about' and those who are stay distant from each other... will happen.... AND DID.

amother

Mon, May 11 2020, 7:40 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

We are past that already. At this rate, it's time to move forward...we won't get anywhere sitting home and waiting..

amother

Purple

Mon, May 11 2020, 9:17 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

We are past that already. At this rate, it's time to move forward...we won't get anywhere sitting home and waiting..

This is from the article hammer and dance https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo.....92b56

Presented like these, the two options of Mitigation and Suppression, side by side, don’t look very appealing. Either a lot of people die soon and we don’t hurt the economy today, or we hurt the economy today, just to postpone the deaths.
This ignores the value of time.

amother

Orchid

Mon, May 11 2020, 11:52 pm

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

This is from the article hammer and dance https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo.....92b56

And what exactly has time gotten us so far? We're more than two months into this. The Chinese experts are more than 4 months into this. People on ima love saying "well if we just have more time". All time has gotten us thus far is a bunch of experts with a thousand different opinions and no actual consensus on anything that works or doesn't work.

First it was we need a ventilator for every person, now its maybe ventilators are actually hurting people and we should just put them in a prone position.
First it was masks do more harm than good, now it's you should pretty much always wear a mask.
First it was well the virus doesn't harm children, now maybe it does, but maybe only children when series underlying conditions.
First Hydroxycloroquine was a miracle, then it was more harmful then helpful, now maybe if you give it early enough it can help. Maybe.
We have a treatment that is at best marginally effective at not even decreasing the death rate, but decreasing the time to recovery. I wouldn't exactly call that a slam dunk.
And you can find a so-called "expert" who agrees or disagrees presently with every single thing above.
Science is great when it works. The problem with science is that it takes years to prove even a simple hypothesis or map out a single virus. You don't have years when you're dealing with the destruction of the entire world economy, plunging hundreds of millions of people into starvation and poverty, creating a mental health crisis on top of your public health crises, and generally just destroying the lives and futures of the 7 billion people on this planet who aren't going to die.