Is it stealing to listen in on another telephone classroom?

amother

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 4:39 pm

Our school's schooling is on a recorded line. Press 1 for this grade, press 2 for mrs. X, etc.
For fun, my kids will listen in on other recorded classes, and I had no problem with it. For example, my 5 year old will listen to a different kindergarten, or my ,2 yo, who isn't even in school, will listen to a morah for nursery.

One of my kid's friends said that their father says it's assur, it's stealing.

What would that be?
Do you think so?
If so, would it make a difference whether the child is not actually enrolled in the school, but just a younger sibling.

Elfrida

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 5:32 pm

I'm sure you're not the only ones doing it. For some reason other peoples classes are much more interesting. There is probably less of an issue listening to other classes in the same school than listening to a different school where you are not registered and haven't paid any tuition. A younger sibling who does not go to any school yet is more of a grey area.

I am assuming from what you said that the class is effectively a pre-recorded lecture, with no teacher/student interaction. If there is any interaction, it would be very hard to justify taking the teachers time away from her own class.

I'm not qualified to give a halachic ruling, but I would reccomend asking the school if they mind. If the school is ok with it, they are giving permission which would be valid halachically. If the school does not allow it, it would be hard to find halachic justification for using a service which you have not paid for.

amother

Tan

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 7:47 pm

I'm making no comment about the halachic point of view, just as a teacher I would be uncomfortable knowing random people were listening to my classes. It's difficult enough as it is, putting yourself out there, without having to think that anyone can just listen to them. I would be seriously bothered that my classes, that I've tailored for my class, are available for all and sundry. It would feel like a serious breach of my privacy.
Sorry if I come across as too strong, I'm now seriously freaked out at the thought of random people listening into my classes.

Ora in town

Tue, Jun 09 2020, 6:49 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Our school's schooling is on a recorded line. Press 1 for this grade, press 2 for mrs. X, etc.
For fun, my kids will listen in on other recorded classes, and I had no problem with it. For example, my 6 year old will listen to a different kindergarten, or my ,3 yo, who isn't even in school, will listen to a morah for the grade above her.

One of my kid's friends said that their father says it's assur, it's stealing.

What would that be?
Do you think so?I
If so, would it make a difference whether the child is not actually enrolled in the school, but just a younger sibling.

I agree with you.

If I buy a book and give it to someone else to read it's not stealing either.
If someone sat in while your child was listening to the morah, it would not be stealing either.
So why would that be stealing?

If someone decided not to register their chld at school, but systematically listen in to the lessons someone else paid for, this might be considered dishonest, because in this case the school would lose money...

But this is not the situation.
Here, all this came about without any of us wanting it, all your children are registered in the appropriate schools, so I don't think it is necessary to bother...

Simple1

Tue, Jun 09 2020, 7:00 am

I'm guessing from the principal's point of view, the more, the merrier- more learning gets done! I have one kid whom I can barely get to call at all. The rest I'm happy they call their own, they are not calling extras. But I can also understand the teacher who is uncomfortable with it

Chayalle

Tue, Jun 09 2020, 8:12 am

Didn't think about this....I listened in to some of DD's classes so I could help her with the work and hear what the teacher said. I didn't think they'd mind, since they expect parents to support their kids' education during this time.

I mean, math instruction over the phone is not working very well for my child...and I need to know what method the teacher is employing so I can teach it to her....things like that.

BTW - my sister's daughter was stuck here for 3 months with her husband and 3 kids (they came from Israel for a family Simcha before Purim). Her 2 grandsons listened in with their young uncle (since they are Hebrew-speaking, they were able to understand the higher level). Kept all 3 of them busy, and my sister's tuition dollars maximized.....

watergirl

Tue, Jun 09 2020, 8:43 am

My kids schools provided kosher tablets and this is part of the reason why. They do not want anyone extra listening in. I wonder if its considered gneivas daas actually. A parent listening to help her kid is not the same as letting your kid dial in for funsies. My daughter’s school actually provided earphones so the teachers who sing in class can be comfortable doing so without worrying that others are hearing it - this is a tznius concern. Its written in every school correspondence to make sure the girls use them.

OP the easiest way to find out if its ok with the school is by asking them!

watergirl

Tue, Jun 09 2020, 8:46 am

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

This!

amother

Maroon

Tue, Jun 09 2020, 9:37 am

I think it's stealing. A teacher puts herself into her lesson for her students. She knows her audience and her lesson is tailor made for them.
Unless you ask her permission, you are taking advantage.
Someone actually asked me to share conference call numbers and I told her it's wrong for this reason.

Blessing1

Tue, Jun 09 2020, 9:40 am

Chayalle wrote:

This is wrong. I don't think it's right or OK for kids that don't attend the school to listen in to the classes. You don't have a right to be dishonest because you're paying tuition.

Chayalle

Tue, Jun 09 2020, 9:48 am

Blessing1 wrote:

This is wrong. I don't think it's right or OK for kids that don't attend the school to listen in to the classes. You don't have a right to be dishonest because you're paying tuition.

To be fair, they were occupying the same space for 3 months. There's no rule that while one child is listening to class, everyone in the household must be somewhere else. It would be unfair of a school to expect that.

Watergirl said that the school provided tablets and earphones. I don't know of other schools that did the same.

SixOfWands

Tue, Jun 09 2020, 9:49 am

Chayalle wrote:

IMNSHO, for younger kids, at the very least, parents are expected to be there, listening and helping. No issue.

A student in Morah A's class listening in on Morah B shouldn't be an issue, either. Maybe Morah B teaches better for a specific type of student in a specific area (and Morah A is better at something else). You're maximizing the learning. So long as you don't interfere with the actual class.

The rest I think is a question. Why is it different from walking into the classroom without paying tuition?

amother

Tue, Jun 09 2020, 9:50 am

Asked shailah.
It's muttar.

(Asked for kids to listen in on their own school line. Didn't ask about listening to other schools. Don't know if that would make a difference or not.)

My friend is a teacher. Her school's line has a voicemail. Some totally random lady left a message saying,'I enjoy your classes!' LOL

It was a student's aunt. The teacher had interviewed the student as a special program for the line, and the mother had told her family to listen to it! Mad

Blessing1

Tue, Jun 09 2020, 10:02 am

Chayalle wrote:

They can be in the same room without listening in. To purposely listen in to keep them occupied is dishonest.
As sixofwands said, it's like sitting into a classroom without paying tuition.

amother

Firebrick

Tue, Jun 09 2020, 10:03 am

So interesting, my entire family enjoys the videos (prerecorded) that my son's preschool send. The teachers are so happy when I tell them that all the kids enjoyed.
I teach over zoom and love when I see parents in the background, listening and being involved with their child's lessons. And I honestly don't mind recordings of my classes being passed around.
Maybe it's because I'm not American, I'm British so I'm frankly a little baffled that this is even a discussion.