Thinking of Aliyah

Rappel

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 2:39 am

Success10 wrote:

Can someone who is not idealistically Zionist, but otherwise similar in observance and dress, fit in to a Torani community? I think the kids would be confused, no?

I think so. Many (most?) people live in yishuvim now just because it's a nice place to live.

chanchy123

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 2:44 am

Success10 wrote:

Can someone who is not idealistically Zionist, but otherwise similar in observance and dress, fit in to a Torani community? I think the kids would be confused, no?

What do you mean by idealistically Zionist? As long as you’re not anti-Zionist it shouldn’t be an issue.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 2:52 am

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

For those complaining that I'm calling out on the illegal building, it's most certainly not something which happens all over Israel. It's a predominantly haredi and Arab issue, and I"ve never seen anything like it in the merkaz.

I'm not going to argue on that - You may be right. But all the chareidim and arabs don't live in RBS. There's chareidim in Tel Aviv too you know.

chanchy123

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:01 am

Re: illegal additions. In my entire life I don’t think I’ve heard personally of anyone being in trouble for illegal additions (although I know several cases of people doing fishy or semi fishy things). The one story I heard of someone getting in trouble for this was in RBS Gimmel.
I’m not saying only people in RBS Gimmel build illegally in saying that it makes sense to me this is an issue there. Either people have done it considerably more than other places in the country or that the mayor is cracking down on such violations more than mayors in other places. Whatever the reason is it’s something important to know before you buy there (but shouldn’t deter you from buying - just worth it to be extra careful).

Last edited by chanchy123 on Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:07 am; edited 1 time in total

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:04 am

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

That's about 1.5 million shekels. For RBS gimmel you're definitely talking about an apartment, not a house. 3 or 4 rooms (not bedrooms, rooms) and approx 80 something square meters.

For those complaining that I'm calling out on the illegal building, it's most certainly not something which happens all over Israel. It's a predominantly haredi and Arab issue, and I"ve never seen anything like it in the merkaz.

For reception, the woman trying to sell us an apartment in the area even apologized about it and said it was a big problem (but at least less problems of radiation! yep, doesn't help us much)

Im glad you think this, but it is factually not true. People from ALL walks of life build illegally, and all over israel. Truly.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:06 am

Rappel wrote:

I think so. Many (most?) people live in yishuvim now just because it's a nice place to live.

Rappel, but this isnt really about living in a yishuv per say, you know? Torani communities are not only in yishuvim Smile

But I do agree with you about yishuv life. Not everyone lives there now a days because of ideology.

amother

Beige

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:09 am

chanchy123 wrote:

Depends on the city. Some are stricter than others. (And I have heard of people getting into trouble. Definitely)
Anyway, the main complication arises when one wants to sell a house with an illegal addition. The buyer needs to look into the property rights and make sure he's not paying extra for that extra room which is actually illegal (and which he can be fined for down the road. He definitely can be fined for all the years of arnona he evaded by not declaring the room).

amother

Beige

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:10 am

Rappel wrote:

I think so. Many (most?) people live in yishuvim now just because it's a nice place to live.

Most people don't live in yeshuvim. That's how they stay yeshuv size and not city size.

Most people are in the cities.

Rappel

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:32 am

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

Most people don't live in yeshuvim. That's how they stay yeshuv size and not city size.

Most people are in the cities.

Picky picky Smile

Many people these days WHOM live in yishuvim do so because it's a nice place to live, and not out of any ideology.

Shabbatiscoming - for sure. But I guess I assumed that the poster was asking about yishuv life, because that's the main attraction which would draw someone to a Torani kehillah for non-ideological purposes. My mistake.

chanchy123

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:38 am

Rappel wrote:

Picky picky Smile

No, I don’t think so. When I recommenced that I meant that many Americans think they must be chareidi in Israel because they wear a black hat and struggle to fit in with the chareidi society while they’d do much better choosing a non chareidi community and schools/shuls etc. this can be in a yishuv town or city.

LovesHashem

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:46 am

chanchy123 wrote:

It's difficult. If you are american yeshivish or BY then Zionism isn't your thing, you many not allow your kids to have movies, and you tzniyus standards are different than the Dati Leumi communities.

It's like - where do you go?

amother

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:50 am

Thanks for all the responses. I'm very confused regarding the thoughts about integrating into Israeli society; is it better to move to a somewhat american community like RBS with school aged children (5th grade and younger)? Or does that make it more difficult for kids in terms of a smooth transition?
Also what does an apartment in RBS cost? And what about other neighborhoods/areas? We are yeshivish in terms of dress (black hat) and hashkafa, particularly dh. He would not be ok changing his ideologies but at the same time I would feel terribly stifled being forced into a very narrow box which is my understanding of what's required in order to fit into mainstream chareidi society.

amother

Lawngreen

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:53 am

A lot of Americans think they're charedi when they are not by Israeli standards. A sheitel and a black hat doesn't make you charedi. RBS is a soft landing for people who struggle to define themselves.

I don't think people should be so dismissive of Rappel's idea of a yishuv. I've met many Americans who blended very well into largely torani yishuvim. Especially in the gush and a few other yishuvim nearby Ariel. Beit El could be a great fit. They also happen to be Americans who learned Hebrew to a high standard, which I can't say for everywhere...

amother

Lawngreen

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 3:56 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Also what does an apartment in RBS cost?

Check out yad2.co.il to get an idea. In gimmel with 2.1 - 2.3 million shekels we could afford a 5-6 room garden apartment

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 4:17 am

Here is a breakdown of the new RBS Neighborhoods.
RBS G1- no chassidim, majority of modern israeli charedim and second generation anglos, a bit of everything else
RBS G2- Chassidim of all kind, many yeshivish and modern yeshivish anglos- mainly in the wolfson projects, a bit of everything else
Mishkafayim- no chassidim, lots of modern anglo and modern yeshivish anglo
M3- mostly Dati leumi anlo and not with a mix of everything else
Hope this helps

chanchy123

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 4:18 am

LovesHashem wrote:

A. As long as you’re not anti-Zionist then there are many DL who are also not gung ho Zionists. I.E. There is a range everywhere, it’s ok to be on the less Zionist range.
B. I don’t think you have had much interaction with Torani communities. There are plenty of Torani people who do not let their children have ANY access to secular culture and allow very limited video exposure (and even then only to frum content). Also their tznius standard tend to be super strict, they will look down at chareidi women with sheitals and heels. Not everyone is to that extreme of course and their is a range like everywhere else. But if this is what you’re looking for you will find it too.
Torani circles are very strict in following Halacha, dress very modestly, limit secular cultural exposure, have a strong emphasis on learning - not everyone is super extreme but some are. I can recommend schools and communities.

amother

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 4:23 am

chanchy123 wrote:

Can you define what identifies someone as torani? Like what does that mean? I'm confused how to define oneself based on Israeli categories vs american

chanchy123

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 4:25 am

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

I had to read this twice to make sure I didn’t write this myself.
OP and other OOT yeshivish amothers, I’m going to say this again because this is very very important: A black hat and sheital does not make you chareidi these are externals.
What we are claiming is that for many people, DL communities would NOT mean a change in hashkafa or hanhaga, you would blend in beautifully, just the way you are. OTH you would have to make many changes to blend in to chareidi society.
Look at the essence - not the package.