What would you do? Movie question

amother

Red

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 10:18 am

No way any frum parent would be ok with this. Read the details:
https://www.commonsensemedia.o.....rvice

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Parents need to know that Kingsman: The Secret Service is a bold, though at times indulgently violent, action thriller that turns the James Bond genre on its head. It's funny, cheeky, and stylish, but it's also extremely brutal, with exploding heads, gory stabbings, shootings, and utter murderous mayhem (a scene of mass carnage inside a church is especially wince-inducing/stomach-turning). While the violence is presented in a stylized, almost cartoonish way, the sum total of it is likely to disturb some viewers. There's also swearing (including "f--k," "s--t," and some racial/homophobic slurs), s-xual innuendo, a gratuitously tasteless scene with a naked female bottom, and drinking. But there's also a smattering of advice about how to be an honorable person in a dishonorable time.

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Language
Frequent strong language includes "f--k," "s--t," "b****," "darn," the "N" word, and a homophobic slur.

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S-x
A woman's naked backside is shown as part of a tasteless, sexist, s-xually provocative joke. Allusions to s-xual acts (including backside relations), some kissing/flirting.

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Violence
An endless parade of so-over-the-top-that-it's-almost-cartoonish violence; it's stylized and clearly not realistic, but it's still shocking and brutal. Many gory injuries and deaths, especially during a scene of mass carnage inside a church. Scenes include hatchets to the head, a man sliced in half, gunshots at close range, crashes, stabbings, a man impaled on a pole, explosions, eye gougings, heads exploding, and much, much more. It's gruesome yet glamorized, and the sum total is unsettling.

amother

Orchid

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 10:22 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Usually we do watch with him. More my husband than I because I end up falling asleep half the time, but if he wants to watch a questionable movie, I’d absolutely prefer it’s with one of us.

I don’t know what’s up with these kids. Another poster said maybe the parents aren’t aware, but I know these people and it’s not even like the kids the have to sneak around. They just do whatever they want. It’s a little bit of a hefker situation.

If you don't want him sneaking around, you need to offer decent alternatives. Research some similar type of movies you are ok with, and have him invite his friends over to watch.
Do not embarrass him by choosing a 30 year old movie from your childhood or a frum one. That will defeat the purpose.
You'll need to find more up to date ones.
Some movies you may want to look into:
1917
Dunkirk
Neither have more than 1 odd scene with a modestly dressed woman. No romance. Some violence, because these are war movies, but not graphic or gratuitous. 1917 has a bit of language. Dunkirk, barely any. Both are action packed and very thrilling to watch. Plus, educational, about some fairly unknown aspects of the world wars. Also, very recently made with world renowned actors and directors. Both award winning movies.

amother

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 10:39 am

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

Like I said he watches many current alternatives. He’s far from restricted. But it upsets me when other parents just give their kids a free pass to watch whatever they want, when as you can see the above poster agrees that this is in no way a movie a 14 year old should be watching.

amother

Orchid

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 10:46 am

What's the saying, not my circus, not my monkeys?
If it's not movies, it may be unlimited junkfood. Or letting kids run around the neighborhood freely from a young age. Or never discipline them for bratty or rude behavior. Etc. People have different ways of raising their kids, many of which others disapprove of, and may exert peer pressure on your kids you are unhappy about. There's nothing you can do about it, except do your best to raise your children with the values that are important to you.
Be glad that he is asking permission instead of sneaking around. Do your best to make sure it stays that way--that's really all you can do. At 14, there's not much you can do to control his friends unless you move, or switch schools or something.

amother

Babyblue

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 10:49 am

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

I say no without fear that my teen will sneak and do it anyway because parents need to set boundaries of what is acceptable and what is not regardless of what the child will choose to do.
I try not to say no generally, I always look for a compromise if my gut instinct is a no.
But when a no is necessary, it's firm. And I usually explain why.
Starting any activity at midnight and being late for shacharis, for me is already a no. If you want to do something, do it at normal daytime hours.
But I also tell my children from time to time, that my job is to teach them what's right and their job is to do the right thing. That they are in charge of their own actions and responsible for them. That I cannot force them to do what's right, but I expect them to make good, smart choices.
I create the right environment for them and I'm there for advice and guidance. And I keep my eyes open as to where they may need extra guidance.
And validate validate validate their wishes, dreams, disappointments, etc. Be there with them in their emotional and mental space

I totally agree with this!!!
I always tell my kids my job is to tell what's right and what's wrong, it's your job to decide if you want to do the right thing or not! And they totally understand what it means!
You can't force teenagers to make the right choices ,you can raise them in a way that they will want to.
(Obviously I'm not talking about younger kids!)

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 11:13 am

OP, I understand why you wouldn't want your son to even read that review.

Can you sum it up a little bit, and tell him exactly why this movie is not appropriate for any frum person, of any age? IME, a logical explanation "makes the medicine go down" a lot easier.

Tell him that if it was a different movie, you would be fine with it. Maybe come up with some alternatives that he can suggest to his friends, so they can still have movie night together. Buddy movie cop/action/comedies are always good. Anything with Jackie Chan will captivate the attention of a 14yo boy. Good guys vs. Bad guys, and no cheap thrills just to get views.

amother

Navy

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 11:20 am

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

Thank you!!! Not really sure why and when so many parents became scared of disciplining their children..

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 11:29 am

amother [ Navy ] wrote:

Thank you!!! Not really sure why and when so many parents became scared of disciplining their children..

I think it's because it's a new generation, and kids are exposed to so much more. There's no playbook for a lot of this, so we're just winging it.

There's such a fine line between maintaining your values, and stifling a curious kid. I think it also depends on your kid's personality. If they are independent minded and stubborn, if they are sweet and compliant, etc. It's easy to lay down to rules if your kid is a goody two shoes. Nothing wrong with that.

Other kids fight back at the slightest restriction, so you have to go about it gently - all while trying to keep your position of authority. Doing all of this while keeping an open dialog and maintaining your kid's trust is not always so easy. BTDT TMI

amother

Cyan

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 11:38 am

Oy, I don't even let myself watch R rated movies !!! I think I gave in and watched once or twice and felt traumatized. You're really scaring me now, because my son goes to a less yeshivish Lakewood school because that's the one that accepted us. It's a great school and he's young still, but I hope this kind of struggle doesn't come up for us. My girls who are in a more yeshivish school have peer pressure to watch movies, but we're talking stuff like Parent Trap and Frozen.

amother

Bisque

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 11:38 am

amother [ Red ] wrote:

No way any frum parent would be ok with this. Read the details:
https://www.commonsensemedia.o.....rvice
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Thank you so much for sharing the link. I would actually disagree with you though. I am a frum parent and I saw that in the movie theater with my two eldest DCs when it first came out. My DH was an avel at the time. We all greatly enjoyed it. I would now let my younger teens watch it with me in the room. I do read reviews before that before I make decisions but sometimes I disagree with the reviewers. I found it a funny, modern parody of the James Bond genre.

For me, the moral lesson in the movie “there's also a smattering of advice about how to be an honorable person in a dishonorable time” outweighs the few smutty/bad language bits.

icedcoffee

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 12:44 pm

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

I just want to chime in and say I've seen this movie too and I love it (I have no kids and I'm modern though haha so take that for what you will). There is violence but it is very stylized and not gory/realistic. The "morals" revolve around being a gentleman, acting honorably, being part of a team and supporting each other, making good choices, etc. I can see where it looks pretty bad if you're reading a broken down list of every instance of violence, but overall, it's very different than other action movies where it's all bad people doing bad things to each other. There's a lot of heart to it.

Of course it's 100% your own decision and I don't mean to say you should do something you're not comfortable with, but I wanted to give some insight as someone who has actually seen it. I think it's actually a pretty clever movie.

amother

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 1:30 pm

icedcoffee wrote:

Thanks for sharing your perspective. Would you say it’s appropriate for a 14 year old?

amother

Wine

Fri, Jul 17 2020, 1:48 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My 14 year old asked me if he can watch a certain movie with his friends. He’s a good kid and knows I like to research a movie before he watches it. I checked it out and it’s rated R. I don’t raise my kids very sheltered and I let them watch, but I feel like I have to draw the line somewhere, and R feels like a bit much for a 14 year old. PG13 movies I look into and some are ok. What bothers me is that I feel like I’m the only parent involved here. The other two boys just seem to do whatever they want, with no parental involvement. I don’t want the be the mean parent here. He’s a really good kid and we have a very open trusting relationship, and I don’t want that to change. I worry if I become too restrictive it will work against me, but at the same time I do need to have standards. He’s not yet an adult. I’m also not thrilled about him starting a movie after midnight and then missing shacharis, but I’m not going to get too uptight about that. I just don’t love the idea overall. It’s not like he hasn’t missed Minyan before but I don’t feel like this is a very good reason to miss it.

To give a better frame of reference, we are probably what those on imamother would label as JPF, living in Lakewood. He’s in a less yeshivish but still Lakewood school.

But I think that many can relate to this question of where do we draw the line and how do we do to without pushing our kids the other way? I would love to hear from more seasoned parents of teens. This is my first!

Also, at the beginning when he asked me and saw I wasn’t thrilled, he said it’s fine if you say no, but then he started pushing a little. Although ultimately he did listen, but I don’t know if I made the right decision. My husband is sleeping so I couldn’t even discuss with him. He does tend to be more liberal about these things but ultimately defers to me.

You did the right thing and when u ask, what about his friends’ parents who aren’t having a problem with it, I’d say ur right to question where their parents are on this. Rated r movies are way too problematic for a young teen. U can’t shield them forever but while they’re this young u sure are doing the right thing not condoning it. Even PG movies these days have more stuff than most frum people want their young teens to see. It’s a very low generation, the pritzis and dirt are in the street and we can only do our best.