What exactly does TAG allow and not allow?

PeanutMama

Wed, Mar 10 2021, 5:04 am

chanchy123 wrote:

Hashem n Farfel
It seems like your husband really wants to make sure that he has a place in your chosen community and feels like as geirim you are automatically at a disadvantage and under a microscope so you have to be (sorry for the metaphor) holier than the Pope.
What you really need is a community leader to vouch for you, speak up for you, and act as a sponsor and facilitator.
You need someone to open doors for you so you (and he) can know that you can live freely in the community without constantly needing to prove yourselves.
If something like this does not exist, then why drive yourself crazy trying to fit in to a club that will never accept you.
Judaism is beautiful, you know it, you chose it - there just so many different ways of being Jewish, with all those things you value so much.
I understand the charm and advantages of belonging to a specific chassidish community - and if it works that’s amazing. But you have to know it it ever will work for you.

I’m in contact with my mashpia who knew me from my pre geirus days. Basically since I was 16-17. When I was sure I wanted to be a Jew.
I made geirus just after I turned 20.
I’m going to turn 25 in September so it’s gonna be a few years now. That mashpia helped me and still helps me get through spiritual/emotional stuff even shalom bayis stuff.
I recently asked if the mashpia would be open to speaking to rabbis/principals etc when the time comes...and the mashpia replied well always be your backbone.

BUT.

One valuable lesson I am still learning that the mashpia taught me was to not look at Judaism as if it’s restrictive. I should look at it in a way that will help me improve my relationship to hashem and his Torah, because we WANT to do the right things and we want to live a pure kosher life.
He mentioned no rabbi wants us to suffer in our Judaism....we’re supposed to be serving hashem with joy
The Rav also told this to us when we met with him the first time.
I notice that they have this common theme to live a happy joyous life but how can one be really happy if she’s having trouble giving up certain stuff especially someone coming from “outside”?

I just don’t think anybody other than the Rav and mashpia will understand, and I guess that’s why I need them to speak up for me.

Sorry for rambling
Could not sleep.

Amelia Bedelia

Wed, Mar 10 2021, 6:51 am

Hashem_n_Farfel wrote:

I don’t know anybody chasidish who looks like me or has my background. But the one giyores or BT I met in my shul is very chasidish with a band or hat on her wig, seams on her tights
I admire her but I’m not at that level.
I have a short wig myself but human hair (also a fight we had but in the end he just wanted peace so he let me have the wig) uncovered.
Appropriate loose shirts and skirts collarbone fully covered well below the knee but not crazy below the knee cuz I’m short and I don’t want to feel blah about myself. I wanna feel good for myself. Smile

I wear a little bit of makeup. Nothing crazy. I do wear 60-90 denier tights but no seams.
I probably look like half of bp lol but I don’t dress super chasidish like I used to. I used to wear all black with chasidish tichel.

The way I dress today is exactly what I am comfortable with and want to do. I chose to dress this way. I’ve been through a lot of changes in this area...

I don’t think anybody else who looks like has an iPhone with internet lightly filtered but I could be wrong. It’s just really unlikely.

There are plenty of people like that in BP. Me, for example.

There are also plenty of good chassidish neutral schools for families who are not "modern" like you described upthread. You can pm me for a list. There are also some that are officially affiliated with a particular moisad but have a majority of students who are from other chassiduses (or who are considered neutral).

nchr

Wed, Mar 10 2021, 8:24 am

chanchy123 wrote:

To the degree she mentioned here? Blocking forums such as imamother? I find that hard to believe, because you yourself are chassidish and are part of a forum that as mentioned upthread would be blocked by this system.
OP doesn’t mind having a filter on her phone, in fact, she wants one. She just wants control over the sites and apps that will be restricted. That’s completely understandable. And you know what? Maybe she does need special halachic or hashkafic ruling because she is a gerat Tzedek, there is no need to be snarky about her commitment to Judaism.
You might find that you are over an issur deorisa of onat hager.

Huh? That was not my intention. I was saying that if you belong to a certain group you need to follow what is expected and if you think you are deserving of an exception, you need to ask a Dayan. I just meant it very factually. You can't control the sites or apps that will be restricted. If you have certain apps you need for work, then you tell the place when they put on the filter. If you want a site opened, then you can request access and they can choose to approve it or not. You can request access for an hour or 24 hours or longer. If they won't open it or not for the period you requested, and you need it, you need to call in and discuss why. I don't know how that works with the mosdos. If someone has a heter from a dayan, I suppose they will figure out how to do that. I was just being literal here.

PinkFridge

Wed, Mar 10 2021, 9:10 am

Hashem_n_Farfel wrote:

First of all, you're amazing.
Second of all, when one says no to something, what is one able to say yes to fill the void?

amother

Silver

Wed, Mar 10 2021, 9:29 am

Amelia Bedelia wrote:

It’s actually the same way here in Lakewood. When I first got married I really frummed out (and I’ve always been ffb and yeshivish, but my in laws were so much more than I was and I guess I felt like I had something to prove) I’m now back to what Amelia bedelia classified as “neutral”. Which is more common in Lakewood than bp but if you hang out in certain neighborhoods here you’d never know it. I’d suggest you find good frum people living in bp, leading the sort of lifestyle that you really want, and see how they find that balance. That will give you a better idea of what you want for yourself. Your particular block isn’t necessarily a good role model for you.

amother

Rose

Wed, Mar 10 2021, 10:06 am

It seems like your on the Derech of serving Hashem with Joy and you have a Mashpia to back you, and it sounds like your husband is on a journey of taking on as many chumros as he can.
It can clash at times.
But don't think you are alone.
There are plenty of women like you in BP.
Uncovered sheitels, Chassidish, smartphones, with super Chassidish husbands.
Be realistic. It is super hard for neutral people to get into Chassidish mosdos. It is not just about technology.
They will most probably not accept your child regardless of your phone and you really don't want to send there anyways.
There are chedarim in BP like Biyan, Stolin, and Mevakshei Hashem that are neutral Chassidishe chedarim with an amazing parent body just like you. There are schools like Bais Sara, Bais Bracha and Tomer Devora that have plenty of chassidishe strong girls.

Side point- get whatever filter you want but make sure this is not a discussion that is up for debate any longer.
You need to do these things when you are ready, not when your husband or anyone else is ready. It will only backfire if you are being forced into it.

PeanutMama

Wed, Mar 10 2021, 10:10 am

PinkFridge wrote:

First of all, you're amazing.
Second of all, when one says no to something, what is one able to say yes to fill the void?

I’m not sure Sad

It’s difficult.
I’m not complaining just saying it the way it is.
Sorry I’m not so clear just very tired. I only slept 3 hours

IF it would happen I wouldn’t know what to do. I can’t cut off my mother. She disapproved of me getting into Judaism the first place and when she realized I was very serious about living a Jewish life (when I left her home at 19) she realized how much I wanted it and made me happy! So she read up on it and understood my feelings about it and really made a full turn around. Last time when we went to AZ she mamash went out of her way every day driving 30 minutes to the nearest kosher grocery or restaurant since we eat that kind of food. She also brought us dishes. Compare that with me arguing back constantly I felt more lady like in skirts than in pants or shorts and she would insist I dress “normally”. Or when I’d hand her a book on Judaism she would make me return to the public library.

What would happen if she wants to see me on video call and I say sorry ma. I can’t use WhatsApp anymore cuz that’s what someone told me to do.

I’m scared of not honoring my own mother properly. She’s the only relative I have who I am now close to.
My sister will not speak to me bc of what I did. My brothers are too distracted with school. My dad is out of the picture since I was born and again when I realized he was just not emotionally healthy (alcoholic).

I know halachically she’s not my mother any longer but she’s the woman who gave birth to me at 17 and decided to stay by my side every day when I was in the hospital for 4 months because I was born 25 weeks instead of 9 months. She was just always there.

Sorry. I’m tearing up.

We can’t afford plane tickets every year for all of us to go to them. Maybe when I start working again it will be easier.

PinkFridge

Wed, Mar 10 2021, 10:42 am

Hashem_n_Farfel wrote:

I’m not sure Sad

Hugs.
There are a few basics here:
It would be constructive to keep up with your mother.
You have a few years.
Yiddishkeit isn't easy. To quote someone before your time, gotta pay your dues if you want to sing the blues and you know it don't come easy.

However, it would be very facile to say, well, sometimes you have to do the hard things so that's what I have to do now. You don't necessarily have to do the hardest things. But you may have to do some hard things. Right now, start editing yourself. Time yourself on line. Limit yourself. Set boundaries. So that when those few years are up you'll know you have a track record of using your device(s) with integrity and productively. (Productively can include relaxation, too.) Hatzlacha!

little neshamala

Wed, Mar 10 2021, 11:59 am

Hashem_n_Farfel wrote:

I’m not sure Sad

You recently posted youve found an understanding Rav who is on your wavlength. I think you need to do some serious talking with him about all this.

If you do not surround yourself with people, and a community, who you feel you fit in with, then you are essentially putting the frumkeit of your family on the line. This may sound drastic, but im sorry, I have seen this way too many times to count. (Some actually label it " the BT phenomenon." To describe baalei teshiva who jump too far to the right when their essence is still more middle ground, and end up raising kids who have trouble...)

Yiddishkeit is about doing Hashem's mitzvos happily. Happily. If you are resenting the extra rules of the community you have chosen, you will end up feeling more and more resentful as time goes on, as more opportunities for disagreeing with their hashkafa arise. (And believe me. Once your kids are in school-they will arise.) I cant figure this out for you, none of us can.
But I really suggest you and DH have a good sit down with your Rav about this exacr topic.

Hatzlacha and hugs.

PeanutMama

Wed, Mar 10 2021, 12:41 pm

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

It seems like your on the Derech of serving Hashem with Joyand you have a Mashpia to back you, and it sounds like your husband is on a journey of taking on as many chumros as he can.
It can clash at times.
But don't think you are alone.
There are plenty of women like you in BP.
Uncovered sheitels, Chassidish, smartphones, with super Chassidish husbands.
Be realistic. It is super hard for neutral people to get into Chassidish mosdos. It is not just about technology.
They will most probably not accept your child regardless of your phone and you really don't want to send there anyways.
There are chedarim in BP like Biyan, Stolin, and Mevakshei Hashem that are neutral Chassidishe chedarim with an amazing parent body just like you. There are schools like Bais Sara, Bais Bracha and Tomer Devora that have plenty of chassidishe strong girls.

Side point- get whatever filter you want but make sure this is not a discussion that is up for debate any longer.
You need to do these things when you are ready, not when your husband or anyone else is ready. It will only backfire if you are being forced into it.

Thanks. I’ve been through this once early in my marriage when I REALLY frummed out. After the wedding I became super frum. Like I had to prove something to someone or people. I guess I was trying to mold myself like one of the Williamsburg ladies.
Over time I realized I felt very down and was on the road to depression especially sorry I’m gonna get a little personal here especially after I miscarried my first pregnancy
That miscarriage changed everything. I started loosening up. With tznius, with hair covering, and some other things. I didn’t do some stuff the way I should’ve. I was just so angry. My thoughts worked like this:
If I did all of that why did hashem take the neshama in me back? Why give it to me in the first place?

I did not tell anybody. In public I still dressed like I would go pre miscarriage but quickly too quickly I realized what’s the point nobody really LIKES me anyway even if I chose to do all the minhagim and chumras in the book.

I still had my iPhone (now useless and broken).

I was just so so angry. I started dressing different more colors quite quickly instead of wearing all black most of the time.
Decided to switch to a wig cuz I missed my hair and I felt blah in chasidish tichel and realized that it really messed up my mild to moderate hearing loss even more.
(It covers your ears with like 3 layers of material)
I just didn’t feel good about myself.

My husband realized what I was going through and we had fights about following what the community does etc

Idk I guess he felt very threatened that I was rebelling in a way but he understood much later far after we moved to bp.

We moved cuz he couldn’t find his place in Williamsburg and I didn’t like that there was not so many type of Jews there and idk I just felt there was a certain way you gotta be and live not sure.

During this time I was actually afraid to reach out to my mashpia cuz I thought he would get disappointed in me.

But one day all the emotions and the pain and questions got too much and I told it all to the mashpia and literally unburdened myself.

BH
He has been a great help and it took a while to love Judaism the way I did the way I came out of the mikvah after my geirus.
He strongly told me to take on things I am OKAY with doing. I shouldn’t jump so far and too high because that’s the worst thing a convert could do.
For now I learnt about the importance of mitzvos and Halacha and it feels so different when you willingly take it on yourself and doing it with a full heart than doing things just like that cuz everyone does it.

I feel very shaken up, I’m afraid it would happen again.
It’s been a long long journey to get where I am today.

My husband does not want anyone to teach him stuff.
He’d listen to whatever anybody says seriously.
I am afraid one day it will be too much (even tho he insisted it’s just what hashem wants from us, to fight our wants and live our lives completely absorbed in Torah and hashem) for him and the same thing will happen to him too. I hope to be strong to deal with it if it happens...
Yes sometimes he picks up stuff from a sefer and does that instead of what x told him

Whenever I mention he should get someone like a big brother who would take him under his wing he says

I’m not interested.

That’s true about the schools tho. I read an article about what bts and geirim go through.

Last edited by PeanutMama on Wed, Mar 10 2021, 2:27 pm; edited 2 times in total