How do you pronounce יששכר? I'm confused how to

amother

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 4:58 pm

I always thought it was pronounced Yissaschar, but in Shtisel I'm hearing it pronounced "Yissachar" and I've never heard that before. Can someone explain? Have I been mispronouncing Yissaschar?

English3

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 5:00 pm

I am cassidish and I pronounce it yissachar

Amelia Bedelia

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 5:01 pm

I've learnt that the second "sin" is silent. But I hear it being pronounced in chassidish circles, those who use chassidish havara

Reality

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 5:02 pm

I have never heard it pronounced as Yissaschar. Only Yissachar.

Maybe it's Israeli to pronounce the second sin?

I am not chassidish.

tweety1

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 5:04 pm

Yesusschar and Yesucher are 2 different names. Yessuscher is spelled יששכר and Yesucher is spelled ישכר.

amother

Violet

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 5:05 pm

The correct way to prononce it is Yisachar, the second sin is silent.
Chassidim pronounce it Yisaschar.

Im not 100% sure why. Will ask my dh.

amother

Violet

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 5:06 pm

tweety1 wrote:

Yesusschar and Yesucher are 2 different names. Yessuscher is spelled יששכר and Yesucher is spelled ישכר.

It is one name
The name of Yaakov's son.

amother

Violet

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 5:09 pm

Yisachar or Yisaschar?
Rabbi Ari Enkin
Although the name of Yisaschar is always written with a double "sin" (referring to the letter of the Hebrew alphabet - not to be confused with "transgression"), there are differing customs on how the name is to be pronounced when it is read in the course of the Torah reading. These conflicting customs are noted by the Biblical commentator, Da'at Zekeinim.[1] The question is whether the name should be pronounced "Yisaschar", articulating both "sin"s, just as it is written, or rather as "Yisachar" articulating only one of the letter "sin"s.[2]

The origins of this dispute are based in the phenomenon that Yisaschar is noted as having a son who was originally named "Yov"[3] but is later, somewhat mysteriously, called "Yashuv"[4]. It is taught that Yov complained to his father regarding the name that he had been given because "Yov" was also the name of an idol. As such, Yov requested a name change. Yisaschar accepted his son's complaint as legitimate and in response he "took" a "sin" from his own name, and "gave" it to his son. With the added letter, "Yov" was transformed into "Yashuv". Consequently, it is argued that Yisaschar should be pronounced "Yisaschar" until the point in the Torah where Yov's name is changed to Yashuv and as "Yisachar" from that point onwards. According to this approach, the dispute on how to pronounce Yisaschar hinges on the name change of his son Yov.

There is, however, another explanation as to why Yov's name was changed. It is suggested that Yov's name was changed to Yashuv in order to reflect the fact that Yashuv and his descendants were scholars who "sat", ("Yashuv") and studied Torah.[5] Therefore, according to this approach, the name of Yisaschar's son has nothing to do with the way Yisaschar's name is to be pronounced in the Torah.

Another explanation regarding the dispute on how to pronounce Yisaschar is based on what the two "sin"s of Yisaschar's name are said to represent. It is taught that the two "sin"s each represent the word "sachar" which can mean both "payment" and "reward". The "payment" in this context refers to Leah having "hired" Yaakov to spend the night with her, paying Rachel for the privilege with mandrakes. The "reward" represents Leah's reaction at the birth of Yisaschar, having called it her reward. Therefore, since one the letter "sins" comes to recall "payment" for marital relations which is an unbecoming transaction, it is not pronounced.[6]

There is also a mystical teaching which encourages the name to be pronounced "Yisachar" at all times. This is based on the idea that Yisaschar represents the Torah.[7] As is well known, the Torah consists of two parts – the Written Torah and the Oral Torah. Each "sin" in Yisaschar's name represents one of these facets of Torah. Therefore, it is taught that the first "sin", representing the Written Torah should be read out loud, while the second "sin", representing the Oral Torah, should remain silent.

In contrast, there are authorities who suggest that the name should always be pronounced "Yisaschar" just as it is written. The basis for this view derives from a somewhat unconventional interpretation of a verse in Tehillim.[8] By means of poetic license, the verse can be interpreted as frowning on the prevalent custom of pronouncing only one "sin" - arguing that doing so is false and should never be done. Yet others choose to always pronounce the name Yisaschar with only one "sin".[9] There is also a somewhat widespread custom to pronounce the name as it is written only the first time it appears,[10] and thereafter to pronounce it "Yisachar".

It is interesting to note that in the Nefesh Harav[11] two customs are cited regarding the pronunciation of Yisaschar. It says there that the custom in Volozhin was to pronounce Yisaschar (with two "sin"s) until Parshat Pinchas at which time the name Yashuv is mentioned, and thereafter to read it with only one "sin". Additionally, it says that Rabbi Yosef Dov Soloveitchik would instruct the one reading the Torah to read the name Yisaschar twice, once they way it is written, and a second time with only one "sin". However, following Parshat Pinchas, Rabbi Soloveitchik would then have it read exclusively with only one "sin". Of course, every congregation should follow its own custom.[12]

[1] Parshat Vayeitzei

[2] See also: Siftei Chachamim to Bamidbar 26:24

[3] Bereishit 46:13

[4] Bamidbar 26:24

[5] Rashi;Divrei Hayamim I 7:1

[6] Rashbam

[7] Bereishit Rabba;Vayeitzei

[8] Tehillim 63:12

[9] Minhag Yisrael Torah 428:1

[10] Bereishit 30:18

[11] Nefesh Harav p.308

[12] Minhag Yisrael Torah 428:1. For more information on this issue see: http://www.ottmall.com/mj_ht_a.....l#CSS and Prof. Jordan Penkower: “Minhag and Massorah: On the Recent Ashkenazi Custom of Double Vocalization of זכר עמלק (Deut. 25:19)”, Studies in Bible and Exegesis, vol. 4, Ramat-Gan: Bar-Ilan University Press 1997, pp. 71-128 (Heb.)

b.chadash

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 5:26 pm

Op, there is lots of info online about this question.

There was also a thread about this here in 2009. You can read it here:
https://www.imamother.com/foru.....ailto

amother

Lawngreen

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 5:47 pm

The first sin is silent not the second AFAIK. It is pronounced Yisacher.

tweety1

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 6:16 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

It is one name
The name of Yaakov's son.

It's definitely one million percent 2 different names. We have both names in the family. One is Yessuscher with the extra S sound and the second one is Yesucher.

Crookshanks

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 7:02 pm

I don't say the second sin.

amother

Violet

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 8:25 pm

tweety1 wrote:

It's definitely one million percent 2 different names. We have both names in the family. One is Yessuscher with the extra S sound and the second one is Yesucher.

Are they siblings? If they are cousins, is it possible that different people within the family were named for the same person but follow different shitas on how to pronounce it?
I dont know about the names in your family. Maybe ask your family members.

We are talking about the person who is the 5th son of Yaakov and Leah. He is one of the shevatim.
ThAT person is spelled with two sins , and there is a dispute on how to pronounce that name. Most of the world pronounces it Yisachar, and many chassidim pronounce it Yissaschar. (Or Yisoscher). Like the sefer "B'nei Yisoscher."
But it is the same person. According to some poskim, when they lein the Torah they read it Yisascher until a cerain point and then switch to Yisacher. (Read article above).

Maybe you have a similar sounding name in your family.

Java

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 8:29 pm

tweety1 wrote:

Yesusschar and Yesucher are 2 different names. Yessuscher is spelled יששכר and Yesucher is spelled ישכר.

No this is wrong. There's no such name as ישכר. They are different pronunciations of the name יששכר

amother

Violet

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 8:32 pm

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

The first sin is silent not the second AFAIK. It is pronounced Yisacher.

Yisachar represented limud HaTorah.
The first sin corresponds to Toras Nigle (revealed Torah)
The second sin corresponds to the Toras Nistar (hidden Torah )
Therefore, the second sin is silent (hidden).

More obviously: look at the nekudos in a chumash.
There is a kametz under the first sin and nothing under the second.

tweety1

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 9:06 pm

cutestbaby wrote:

No this is wrong. There's no such name as ישכר. They are different pronunciations of the name יששכר

Why are you so sure of yourself? You really think I don't know my family names? Well you're abt to learn something new. There is a name Yesucher-ישכר. My theory is you live and you learn. Just because you never heard of this name doesn't mean there is no such name. Yes. Yessuscher and Yesucher are 2 different names. Why are ppl having a hard time digesting this as something they never heard of is beyond me.

nchr

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 9:14 pm

cutestbaby wrote:

No this is wrong. There's no such name as ישכר. They are different pronunciations of the name יששכר

It's not wrong. It's a machlokes. There is a correct spelling with one sin. ישכר

amother

Violet

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 9:25 pm

nchr wrote:

It's not wrong. It's a machlokes. There is a correct spelling with one sin. ישכר

What is a machlokes, according to you? How to pronounce it or how to spell it?

Tweety1 is claiming that there are two separate , unconnected names: Yissoscher and Yisocher.

Cutestbaby is claiming that it is the same name, and it is always spelled with two sins, regardless of how you pronounce it.

So where is the machlokes according to you?

b.chadash

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 9:42 pm

nchr wrote:

It's not wrong. It's a machlokes. There is a correct spelling with one sin. ישכר

If you are talking about the name Yissachar, (the shevet) the correct way to spell it would be יששכר. That is how it is spelled in the Torah, always.

If you know people who spell it with one sin, possibly its to avoid annoying
mispronuciations. like some people might spell Dovid with a yud. I have seen shabbos spelled with a samech. It is incorrect, but accepted for certain things.

tweety1

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 9:55 pm

So I had to go verify whether I'm right or maybe I am indeed making a mistake. I made a phone call to my elders and I am not wrong. It's 2 different names.