How do you pronounce יששכר? I'm confused how to

nchr

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 6:59 pm

b.chadash wrote:

If you are talking about the name Yissachar, (the shevet) the correct way to spell it would be יששכר. That is how it is spelled in the Torah, always.

If you know people who spell it with one sin, possibly its to avoid annoying
mispronuciations. like some people might spell Dovid with a yud. I have seen shabbos spelled with a samech. It is incorrect, but accepted for certain things.

No there are teshuvas on the subject discussing how to spell the name. And there is a machlokes if it should be spelled with one or two Seens even though it is written a particular way in the Torah. Different opinions hold differently.

tweety1

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 7:16 pm

nchr wrote:

BTW The Belzer Rebbe from before the war was named ישכר דוב with one... not a mistake at all. It's a matter of opinion.

And it's pronounced Yesucher. Thank you for posting. I don't care if people don't know. But life is all abt living and learning. Just because one never heard of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, doesn't mean there is no such a thing. I learned so many new minhagim, and what not on this site.

amother

Violet

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 7:33 pm

nchr wrote:

Ok..just to clarify, this is a different point than what Tweety1 is making.

You are not agreeing with Tweety1. She is saying that there are two separate names.

You are saying there was a person named יששכר in the Torah. People who are named after him may spell their name with one sin, or with two. Thats the machlokes.

Did I get that right?

b.chadash

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 7:39 pm

nchr wrote:

BTW The Belzer Rebbe from before the war was named ישכר דוב with one... not a mistake at all. It's a matter of opinion.

I stand corrected. I see that you are right, that the previous Belzer Rebbe, as well as the current one spell their name with one sin.

The question is, is the origin of their name the Yissachar from the Torah?

or is it a brand new name?

I would imagine that its derived from the Yissachar from the Torah, especially since it is pronounced the same way. And for some reason, they drop the second sin...

amother

Violet

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 7:48 pm

tweety1 wrote:

So I had to go verify whether I'm right or maybe I am indeed making a mistake. I made a phone call to my elders and I am not wrong. It's 2 different names.

So if I inderstand you correctly, you are saying that one of these names does not derive from the shevet Yisachar? Would one father name one son Yisachar and the other son Yisaschar?

tweety1

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 9:26 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

So if I inderstand you correctly, you are saying that one of these names does not derive from the shevet Yisachar? Would one father name one son Yisachar and the other son Yisaschar?

Absolutely yes!
Where the name "Yesucher" originates from I have no idea I didn't ask. But definitely would name 2 brothers one and one.

tweety1

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 9:33 pm

b.chadash wrote:

I dunno what havarah you speak. But when pronouncing both names in chasidish havarah, the sin is a little different. In Yissuscher, it's ya-sus-cher. In Yisucher, it's ya-soo-cher. I had this discussion now when I called.

amother

Violet

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 9:55 pm

tweety1 wrote:

I speak both hav'arahs actually (chassidish and litvish). And the reason why this is doubly confusing to me is because outside of the chasidish world, the name in the Torah יששכר, is pronounced with only ONE sin (although its spelled with two). The way you pronounce Yissacher dov, that is how we pronounce יששכר always.

And there is a lot of responsa on the subject of how to pronounce the name יששכר. Google it and you will see this being discussed in many sources. The machlokes basically boils down to whether we pronounce it Yisoscher vs. Yisoocher. (Writing in chassidish havarah). We pasken that its pronounced Yisoocher. (There is a Rashi in DH that says this I believe). That is why it just seems ironic to learn that there is a completly unconnected name, Yisoocher.
Hope this clarifies.

amother

Coral

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 10:01 pm

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

Another vote for יששכר and ישכר being two complete different names. So annoying when people are so sure of themselves and are wrong. We have one of them in the family and no it’s not the same as the other.

I am chasidish and have the name yisucher as popular name in our family and is spelled with only one sin by those named so. However As far as I know it does originate from the name yisaschar and the Nick name berish is very commonly associated with yisacher. Not as a Yiddish translation of the Hebrew dov which is bear. My family members names as they are called up to the Torah is berish not dov. It is an allusion to the berries that Leah received from reuven and offered Rachel for th chance to spend the night with yakov when she conceived her fifth son. So we technically the name originates from there but practically it has evolved to be spelled differently and pronounced differently than how chasidim would pronounce the shevet

amother

Crimson

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 10:07 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Yes Berish is associated with the name in our family too. Not ber. Are we related? And it’s so interesting what you’re saying about the berries. Never heard that one!

tweety1

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 10:11 pm

amother [ Violet ] wrote:

Tnx for explaining. I now get what the confusion is.

amother

Mauve

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 10:15 pm

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

Yes Berish is associated with the name in our family too. Not ber. Are we related? And it’s so interesting what you’re saying about the berries. Never heard that one!

Just as a btw, there is a מחלוקת if Dov and Berish are 2 different names. I know of a family member whos name is Dov. His fil insisted on giving his father's name Berish. This son in-law was livid that when it came to actual name giving his fil did what he wanted to. So now father and son, one is Dov and one is Berish. While his fil says it's 2 different names the son in law says his son has the same name as him.

amother

Coral

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 10:18 pm

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

Yes Berish is associated with the name in our family too. Not ber. Are we related? And it’s so interesting what you’re saying about the berries. Never heard that one!

we might be... But doesn't have to be its a very common combination like binyamin zev because of the association

amother

Coral

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 10:23 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

I dunno but in our family the name is for sure berish nothing related to dov. It's purely associated with the berries story and never was related to dov... I have heard however about ppl refraining from giving very similar names to their kids or two siblings... Like someone named arye wouldnt give yehuda leib

amother

Violet

Thu, Apr 01 2021, 10:27 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Berries? Do you mean the dudaim ? Dudaim are usually defined as mandrakes or jasmine, not berries.
In any case, what language is "Berish" in that it connects to dudaim? I didn't quite get the connection.
(However it makes perfect sense that it would go with Yisachar since the name Yisachar means that there is reward.(yesh sachar) . The reward she was talking about was paying for her chance to sleep with Yaakov that night by giving away the dudaim.
Incidently, some opinions say that is why we drop the second sin from the name because it was to keep this transaction private.)