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amother




RosePink
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 12:24 am
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
This is such a turn off. you are going after an entire family because of a divorce you know nothing about. The man involved does not owe the public any explanations.

I'm not blaming the woman. A get should be given if a marriage is over.

It does not make me sympathetic to the agunah however, and it makes me wonder what else she is capable of, if she could agree to embarrass an entire family so publicly. Seminary pictures???? I was in seminary then. shaychus?

Sorry, its not possible that every one of them is guilty or even involved.

and don't quote the siruvs - everyone knows about games people play with batei din.

This is about the cancel culture infiltrating our community. How much $$ are the influencers earning with this abusive behavior.

And dont tell me the guy is a jerk. That doesnt make this right.


My sister was an agunah for a few years. Enabled by his parents. They weren't called out in the end bc he gave the get but she was ready to do a smear campaign. Absolutely the siblings are guilty too. Anyone who enables it is guilty. There is no other side in these stories. They deserve to be canceled. A woman's life is canceled without a get.
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amother




Lemonlime
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 2:43 pm
amother [ Buttercup ] wrote:
I also recognized the sister in the picture she showed from seminary. Were you in sem the year 1999-2000

There are a bunch of sisters.
Where do you see pictures?
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amother




Seablue
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 2:52 pm
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
This is such a turn off. you are going after an entire family because of a divorce you know nothing about. The man involved does not owe the public any explanations.

I'm not blaming the woman. A get should be given if a marriage is over.

It does not make me sympathetic to the agunah however, and it makes me wonder what else she is capable of, if she could agree to embarrass an entire family so publicly. Seminary pictures???? I was in seminary then. shaychus?

Sorry, its not possible that every one of them is guilty or even involved.

and don't quote the siruvs - everyone knows about games people play with batei din.

This is about the cancel culture infiltrating our community. How much $$ are the influencers earning with this abusive behavior.

And dont tell me the guy is a jerk. That doesnt make this right.


Did you watch the instagram link? If not, you have no right to comment.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 3:55 pm
What I am not understanding is why the courts have allowed these men to drain joint accounts, hide assets, and avoid paying child support. The courts are moving slowly due to Covid backlogs but there are penalties for breaking these laws.
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 4:16 pm
southernbubby wrote:
What I am not understanding is why the courts have allowed these men to drain joint accounts, hide assets, and avoid paying child support. The courts are moving slowly due to Covid backlogs but there are penalties for breaking these laws.


It is very difficult and expensive to stop this from happening in the courts. These aren't criminal matters, but are civil matters. Also, rabbonim may have advised that women cannot file suits on some of these things due to mesirah.

Usually what comeuppance there is if one party drained assets is that they need to restore it to the other party, but sometimes that gets waived in settlements or quite frankly, there's no money anymore.

Proving hiding assets isn't something the police investigate --it would take a PI and even then...again, all money the other party has to pay to "prove". This is why it's not so simple for the courts to do anything--this isn't the police and the DA.
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amother




Phlox
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 4:19 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
ugh.
u kno whats so sad? I cant remember where I read it, but an aguna who was an aguna for many many years... said the hardest part were the women in the community who didnt say anything and put the blame on her.
and I c it all the time on this website. there was a thread where I got into one where she said that maybe they should have worked things out, blasting the family is LH etc.

hello??? dont act holier than the pope! these &%&*(( men have siruvs against them

e/o loves to claim "its lh" when theyre too lazy to do anything


For a lot of victims of all kinds of abuse, including get abuse, the most painful part is watching the community effectively excuse the abuse by treating the abusers the same or alternatively, justifying it by blaming the victims--often all in the name of Torah.

I've been blessed to not be an agunah (barely), but I've suffered a lot of abuse, and still do, and the hardest part is that no one cares. I have a very hard time staying frum and many other abuse victims of various kinds of abuse have gone OTD because of this very thing.
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amother




Thistle
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 4:36 pm
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
This is such a turn off. you are going after an entire family because of a divorce you know nothing about. The man involved does not owe the public any explanations.

I'm not blaming the woman. A get should be given if a marriage is over.

It does not make me sympathetic to the agunah however, and it makes me wonder what else she is capable of, if she could agree to embarrass an entire family so publicly. Seminary pictures???? I was in seminary then. shaychus?

Sorry, its not possible that every one of them is guilty or even involved.

and don't quote the siruvs - everyone knows about games people play with batei din.

This is about the cancel culture infiltrating our community. How much $$ are the influencers earning with this abusive behavior.

And dont tell me the guy is a jerk. That doesnt make this right.


Wow, written so passionately. Keep the passion for the aguna.

Please go check out that video. We are not talking about regular people who happen to be holding back the get for various maybe slightly understandable reasons.

We are talking about sick sick individuals. Reshoim. Men who are only doing this to make the women's life difficult.

I obviously trust Dalia and the facts she said we're horrific.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 6:44 pm
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
This is such a turn off. you are going after an entire family because of a divorce you know nothing about. The man involved does not owe the public any explanations.

I'm not blaming the woman. A get should be given if a marriage is over.

It does not make me sympathetic to the agunah however, and it makes me wonder what else she is capable of, if she could agree to embarrass an entire family so publicly. Seminary pictures???? I was in seminary then. shaychus?

Sorry, its not possible that every one of them is guilty or even involved.

and don't quote the siruvs - everyone knows about games people play with batei din.

This is about the cancel culture infiltrating our community. How much $$ are the influencers earning with this abusive behavior.

And dont tell me the guy is a jerk. That doesnt make this right.


plz stop commenting on my thread. this is a safe space.

I knew a woman hater would post here. was too good to be true to have support for a few hours.
and btw, a seminary picture wasnt posted. a picture of that trash of a husband was posted with his family in their business office.

Gd your post made me want to gag all over my computer. You sound like a lovely person and I hope this never happens to you iyH.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 6:47 pm
do u see my point that s/o will always stick up for a get refuser and his family?

are there any social workers or psychologists here that can explain this to me?

it seems pretty clear cut to not enable them.
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amother




DarkViolet
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 7:00 pm
What makes me nervous is one time people were going after the mother of a get refuser

Until a trusted rav said he had told her he was allowed to live her. And she was trying to get him to the get. And he was very clear it was an issue d’araisa to harass her.

So ppl were wrong then and possible committed lashon hara or motzei shem ra bout her.

Are there any rabbanim in LA who could clarify.
Is the family trying to get him to give the get?
Are they convincing him to withhold?
How much does he have to do with them now?
Do they care?
Do we know?

We don’t know when that pic was taken - it could’ve been taken when he was still living with his wife - we have no frame of reference of the relationship from there.

Until this is clarified are we permitted to mock and bash the family?

Is there such a thing as a safe place for motzei Shem ra?

Saying this doesn’t mean you are minimizing the pain of the agunah

Or supporting the person withholding the get.

All it means is you want to know us the truth being told about his family.

We have been mislead before by social media.

amother [ OP ] wrote:
do u see my point that s/o will always stick up for a get refuser and his family?

are there any social workers or psychologists here that can explain this to me?

it seems pretty clear cut to not enable them.


Other then a single picture with no date or timeline I don’t know how his sisters are enabling him. Can you please explain?
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amother




Tealblue
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 7:01 pm
Sara Vanounou is the sweetest, warmest woman. May Hashem send her yeshua bekariv
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trixx




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 7:10 pm
amother [ DarkViolet ] wrote:
What makes me nervous is one time people were going after the mother of a get refuser

Until a trusted rav said he had told her he was allowed to live her. And she was trying to get him to the get. And he was very clear it was an issue d’araisa to harass her.

So ppl were wrong then and possible committed lashon hara or motzei shem ra bout her.

Are there any rabbanim in LA who could clarify.
Is the family trying to get him to give the get?
Are they convincing him to withhold?
How much does he have to do with them now?
Do they care?
Do we know?

We don’t know when that pic was taken - it could’ve been taken when he was still living with his wife - we have no frame of reference of the relationship from there.

Until this is clarified are we permitted to mock and bash the family?

Is there such a thing as a safe place for motzei Shem ra?

Saying this doesn’t mean you are minimizing the pain of the agunah

Or supporting the person withholding the get.

All it means is you want to know us the truth being told about his family.

We have been mislead before by social media.

Other then a single picture with no date or timeline I don’t know how his sisters are enabling him. Can you please explain?


Again with the "but it's lashon hara", as I've said on another thread, is there any other thing you're so makpid on or just this convenient one.
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amother




DarkViolet
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 7:12 pm
trixx wrote:
Again with the "but it's lashon hara", as I've said on another thread, is there any other thing you're so makpid on or just this convenient one.


This has happened before. We were told someone was an enabler when she wasn’t.

Obviously ppl feel that by being blood relatives with a rasha you are supporting and enabling him by default.
Got it.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 7:15 pm
trixx wrote:
Again with the "but it's lashon hara", as I've said on another thread, is there any other thing you're so makpid on or just this convenient one.


trixx just ignore these type of dumb comments and dont bother wasting ur time and energy
I wonder if these women would be pulling the "lh card" if it were them or their daughters lol
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amother




Alyssum
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 7:15 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
plz stop commenting on my thread. this is a safe space.

I knew a woman hater would post here. was too good to be true to have support for a few hours.
and btw, a seminary picture wasnt posted. a picture of that trash of a husband was posted with his family in their business office.

Gd your post made me want to gag all over my computer. You sound like a lovely person and I hope this never happens to you iyH.

"your thread" omg Laugh
You sound like a lovely person too
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 7:17 pm
if ur so worried about lh, and dont want to stick up for them publicly bc youre afraid/scared (I guess? dont know why you wouldnt stand up to a rasha?) please donate to her chessed fund which is verified.

can a/o share the link?
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 7:18 pm
amother [ Alyssum ] wrote:
"your thread" omg Laugh
You sound like a lovely person too


thanks! I hope you never have to deal with this!
and if u do cv"s ill make sure that your ex family name isnt besmirched and no LH is spoken iyh.
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Crookshanks




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 7:20 pm
Guys guys let's not get personal. Let's argue the facts and not the people who posted them. And don't worry, there's plenty in Pumpkin's post to argue with, it's just making me too nauseous to pull my thoughts together. Anyone else wanna pull it apart?
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NotInNJMommy




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 7:31 pm
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
This is such a turn off. you are going after an entire family because of a divorce you know nothing about. The man involved does not owe the public any explanations.

I'm not blaming the woman. A get should be given if a marriage is over.

It does not make me sympathetic to the agunah however, and it makes me wonder what else she is capable of, if she could agree to embarrass an entire family so publicly. Seminary pictures???? I was in seminary then. shaychus?

Sorry, its not possible that every one of them is guilty or even involved.

and don't quote the siruvs - everyone knows about games people play with batei din.

This is about the cancel culture infiltrating our community. How much $$ are the influencers earning with this abusive behavior.

And dont tell me the guy is a jerk. That doesnt make this right.


This is contrary to halachah. The reason there is seiruv, which in most cases with agunot is because the husband will not even come to beis din, is because without submission to beis din and torah, the entire realm of jewish life and Toras chayim dissolves.

The level of a person refusing to comply with beis din or in many cases, even go to beis din, is so low and depraved that when a BD will issue a seiruv, it means something VERY serious. There is no possibility of resolution in a Torah way when he will not go to beis din.

and it is very much a communal issue to influence the individual or influence others who can influence the individual to come to beis din, particularly in an issue of avoidance of appearance in or compliance with a beis din trapping another person in chains.

Recently Rabbis YY Jacobson and Rabbi Avraham Kahan spoke at length about how this is a communal issue and a seiruv is to be taken very seriously.
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amother




PlumPink
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 11:20 pm
amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:
This is such a turn off. you are going after an entire family because of a divorce you know nothing about. The man involved does not owe the public any explanations.

I'm not blaming the woman. A get should be given if a marriage is over.

It does not make me sympathetic to the agunah however, and it makes me wonder what else she is capable of, if she could agree to embarrass an entire family so publicly. Seminary pictures???? I was in seminary then. shaychus?

Sorry, its not possible that every one of them is guilty or even involved.

and don't quote the siruvs - everyone knows about games people play with batei din.

This is about the cancel culture infiltrating our community. How much $$ are the influencers earning with this abusive behavior.

And dont tell me the guy is a jerk. That doesnt make this right.





Not only is Dalia not making money off this, she is literally putting her life in danger. She is fighting some really vicious people.

Are you giving up your time, resources, safety to help agunos?

I don’t think so. At least don’t hurt them.
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