Do you believe the pandemic will ever end?

amother

Pistachio

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 3:26 pm

GetReal wrote:

For those who don’t die of it. Maybe.

Right. Like any virus… there are viruses in this world. People have died from everything.

Most people do not die from covid. You know that, right?

youngishbear

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 3:27 pm

NotInNJMommy wrote:

I think between vaccines or natural immunity and the virus eventually changing into more stable and less crippling variants (more like previously typical coronaviruses/colds), it won't be anything to manage beyond typical good hygiene, yearly vaccines for those interested (like flu vaccines), etc practices every cold/flu season. I don't think that will be for another year at least.

I keep waiting for the bolded to happen.

From the beginning, the fear was that a new unknown pathogen can rip through a population and kill many people as well as overwhelm the healthcare system. At this point, we are seeing evidence that vaccination prevents deaths and hospitalizations, so I agree with you that the vaccines + natural immunity (to a lesser extent) will bring us closer to those goals, even as the virus becomes endemic and as commonplace as the flu.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like this particular coronavirus is seasonal.

I would be very happy if people became more considerate about spreading germs in general, and if the workplace became more generous with sick days or at least more cooperative about working remotely whenever necessary.

amother

DarkGray

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 3:30 pm

amother [ Aster ] wrote:

A tale of 2 cities...
If you're not vaccinated, no, I dont think it will ever end for you. I do believe it will always be there as a threat.
If you are vaccinated, or have immunity through infection, then yeah, essentially the covid threat is over for you.

Except the vaccine isnt working as we are seeing many people getting sick despite the vaccine so not sure if that is the answer either.

amother

Stonewash

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 3:30 pm

In the history of viruses, most of them mutate to become more contagious, but less deadly. It’s in the viruses best interest to infect as many people as possible, but not kill them.

fleetwood

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 3:32 pm

GetReal wrote:

For those who don’t die of it. Maybe.

You're correct. You cannot catch covid once you are dead from covid.

youngishbear

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 3:32 pm

https://www.theatlantic.com/sc.....9562/

Your Vaccinated Immune System Is Ready for Breakthroughs

Getting COVID-19 when you’re vaccinated isn’t the same as getting COVID-19 when you’re unvaccinated.

By Katherine J. Wu

A new dichotomy has begun dogging the pandemic discourse. With the rise of the über-transmissible Delta variant, experts are saying you’re either going to get vaccinated, or going to get the coronavirus.

For some people—a decent number of us, actually—it’s going to be both.

Coronavirus infections are happening among vaccinated people. They’re going to keep happening as long as the virus is with us, and we’re nowhere close to beating it. When a virus has so thoroughly infiltrated the human population, post-vaccination infections become an arithmetic inevitability. As much as we’d like to think otherwise, being vaccinated does not mean being done with SARS-CoV-2.

Post-vaccination infections, or breakthroughs, might occasionally turn symptomatic, but they aren’t shameful or aberrant. They also aren’t proof that the shots are failing. These cases are, on average, gentler and less symptomatic; faster-resolving, with less virus lingering—and, it appears, less likely to pass the pathogen on. The immunity offered by vaccines works in iterations and gradations, not absolutes. It does not make a person completely impervious to infection. It also does not evaporate when a few microbes breach a body’s barriers. A breakthrough, despite what it might seem, does not cause our defenses to crumble or even break; it does not erase the protection that’s already been built. Rather than setting up fragile and penetrable shields, vaccines reinforce the defenses we already have, so that we can encounter the virus safely and potentially build further upon that protection.

To understand the anatomy of a breakthrough case, it’s helpful to think of the human body as a castle. Deepta Bhattacharya, an immunologist at the University of Arizona, compares immunization to reinforcing such a stronghold against assault.

Without vaccination, the castle’s defenders have no idea an attack is coming. They might have stationed a few aggressive guard dogs outside, but these mutts aren’t terribly discerning: They’re the system’s innate defenders, fast-acting and brutal, but short-lived and woefully imprecise. They’ll sink their teeth into anything they don’t recognize, and are easily duped by stealthier invaders. If only quarrelsome canines stand between the virus and the castle’s treasures, that’s a pretty flimsy first line of defense. But it’s essentially the situation that many uninoculated people are in. Other fighters, who operate with more precision and punch—the body’s adaptive cells—will eventually be roused. Without prior warning, though, they’ll come out in full force only after a weeks-long delay, by which time the virus may have run roughshod over everything it can. At that point, the fight may, quite literally, be at a fever pitch, fueling worsening symptoms.

Vaccination completely rewrites the beginning, middle, and end of this story. COVID-19 shots act as confidential informants, who pass around intel on the pathogen within the castle walls. With that info, defensive cells can patrol the building’s borders, keeping an eye out for a now-familiar foe. When the virus attempts to force its way in, it will hit “backup layer after backup layer” of defense, Bhattacharya told me.

Prepped by a vaccine, immune reinforcements will be marshaled to the fore much faster—within days of an invasion, sometimes much less. Adaptive cells called B cells, which produce antibodies, and T cells, which kill virus-infected cells, will have had time to study the pathogen’s features, and sharpen their weapons against it. While the guard dogs are pouncing, archers trained to recognize the virus will be shooting it down; the few microbes that make their way deeper inside will be gutted by sword-wielding assassins lurking in the shadows. “Each stage it has to get past takes a bigger chunk out” of the virus, Bhattacharya said. Even if a couple particles eke past every hurdle, their ranks are fewer, weaker, and less damaging.

In the best-case scenario, the virus might even be instantly sniped at by immune cells and antibodies, still amped up from the vaccine’s recent visit, preventing any infection from being established at all. But expecting this of our shots every time isn’t reasonable (and, in fact, wasn’t the goal set for any COVID-19 vaccine). Some people’s immune cells might have slow reflexes and keep their weapons holstered for too long; that will be especially true among the elderly and immunocompromised—their fighters will still rally, just to a lesser extent.

Changes on the virus side could tip the scales as well. Like invaders in disguise, wily variants might evade detection by certain antibodies. Even readily recognizable versions of the coronavirus can overwhelm the immune system’s early cavalcade if they raid the premises in high-enough numbers—via, for instance, an intense and prolonged exposure event.

With so many factors at play, it’s not hard to see how a few viral particles might still hit their mark. But a body under siege isn’t going to throw its hands up in defeat. “People tend to think of this as yes or no—if I got vaccinated, I should not get any symptoms; I should be completely protected,” Laura Su, an immunologist at the University of Pennsylvania, told me. “But there’s way more nuance than that.” Even as the virus is raising a ruckus, immune cells and molecules will be attempting to hold their ground, regain their edge, and knock the pathogen back down. Those late-arriving efforts might not halt an infection entirely, but they will still curb the pathogen’s opportunities to move throughout the body, cause symptoms, and spread to someone else. The inhospitality of the vaccinated body to SARS-CoV-2 is what’s given many researchers hope that long COVID, too, will be rarer among the immunized, though that connection is still being explored.

Breakthroughs, especially symptomatic ones, are still uncommon, as a proportion of immunized people. But by sheer number, “the more people get vaccinated, the more you will see these breakthrough infections,” Juliet Morrison, a virologist at UC Riverside, told me. (Don’t forget that a small fraction of millions of people is still a lot of people—and in communities where a majority of people are vaccinated, most of the positive tests could be for shot recipients.) Reports of these cases shouldn’t be alarming, especially when we drill down on what’s happening qualitatively. A castle raid is worse if its inhabitants are slaughtered and all its jewels stolen; with vaccines in place, those cases are rare—many of them are getting replaced with lighter thefts, wherein the virus has time only to land a couple of punches before it’s booted out the door. Sure, vaccines would be “better” if they erected impenetrable force fields around every fortress. They don’t, though. Nothing does. And our shots shouldn’t be faulted for failing to live up to an impossible standard—one that obscures what they are able to accomplish. A breached stronghold is not necessarily a defeated stronghold; any castle that arms itself in advance will be in a better position than it was before.

There’s a potential silver lining to breakthroughs as well. By definition, these infections occur in immune systems that already recognize the virus and can learn from it again. Each subsequent encounter with SARS-CoV-2 might effectively remind the body that the pathogen’s threat still looms, coaxing cells into reinvigorating their defenses and sharpening their coronavirus-detecting skills, and prolonging the duration of protection. Some of that familiarity might ebb with certain variants. But in broad strokes, a post-inoculation infection can be “like a booster for the vaccine,” Su, of the University of Pennsylvania, told me. It’s not unlike keeping veteran fighters on retainer: After the dust has settled, the battle’s survivors will be on a sharper lookout for the next assault. That’s certainly no reason to seek out infection. But should such a mishap occur, there’s a good chance that “continuously training immune cells can be a really good thing,” Nicole Baumgarth, an immunologist at UC Davis, told me. (Vaccination, by the way, might mobilize stronger protection than natural infection, and it’s less dangerous to boot.)

We can’t control how SARS-CoV-2 evolves. But how disease manifests depends on both host and pathogen; vaccination hands a lot of the control over that narrative back to us. Understanding breakthroughs requires some intimacy with immunology, but also familiarity with the realities of a virus that will be with us long-term, one that we will probably all encounter at some point. The choice isn’t about getting vaccinated or getting infected. It’s about bolstering our defenses so that we are ready to fight an infection from the best position possible—with our defensive wits about us, and well-armored bodies in tow.

shoshanim999

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 3:43 pm

finallyamommy wrote:

I don’t even understand half of these answers. Pandemics are caused by viruses, etc. Viruses are prevented from spreading through quarantine and masks, etc. (By the way, the same thing happened with the flu pandemic in 1918–things were shut down and people wore masks.) The pandemic will end when enough people are immune that the virus can’t spread. It’s not solely in America, government has nothing to do with it (except inasmuch as they are trying to keep people safe), there’s no conspiracy.

I don't want to make this into a political thread but the reason why people don't trust the government is because the government lies about everything. Literally everything. But we are expected to believe that THIS time they are telling are telling the truth. Did Fauci change his mind about the effectiveness of masks? Did Fauci lie about whether he supported gain of function at the Wuhan lab? Did this administration lie to the country about whether the virus escaped from the lab? Did we repeatedly see party leaders (from a certain side) preach about social distancing and masking only to get caught violating their own words? We keep hearing from the administration about how dangerous Covid and the delta variant are, but they also allow hundreds of thousands of untested migrants to cross the border and spread out all over the country. But Covid is dangerous they say. So yes, there's a very mixed message from our leaders. (And I use the word "leaders" loosely)

trixx

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 3:49 pm

Did the virus mutate into the deadly delta variant... or is that variant the vaccinated body's response to the spike proteins it was infected with (which is why its all the vaccinated ppl catching it now)?

small bean

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 3:53 pm

July 25th was the 12th consecutive day Sweden, a nation of 10.2 million, failed to record a single Covid death. Country has the lowest mask compliance in the EU, and reports just 39% fully vaccinated.

The disease will end when enough people have natutal immunity.

The government probably won't ever relinquish it's power. Unles we vote them all out and dismantle half the agencies.

amother

Lotus

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 4:09 pm

I agree - we need herd immunity for this to end and that comes in the form of vaccine or having the virus.
The reason I mistrust the govt is because they are forcing those of us who have antibodies to become vaccinated. a far smaller percentage of people are catching covid twice than those vaccinated who contract covid. So why not mandate the vaccine only for those who have no antibodies and make it optional for those who do?
This is the sticking point, why I'm suspicious

amother

Aster

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 4:10 pm

amother [ DarkGray ] wrote:

Except the vaccine isnt working as we are seeing many people getting sick despite the vaccine so not sure if that is the answer either.

The vaccines are incredibly effective against symptomatic covid. Like, 95% effective. Even against variants. 95%.

https://www.news-medical.net/a......aspx

Also, read from any one of multiple news sites reporting the same data. 97% of covid hospitalizations in the US are from unvaccinated people. What does that tell you? That the vaccine isnt working??

tigerwife

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 4:12 pm

I thought it would take about two years, similar to the Spanish Flu. In fact, the beginning of the summer (at least where I live) Covid cases were next to nil since pretty much most people here have either had Covid or were vaccinated. The new Delta variant gets me nervous. It’s depressing that the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine went down from 95% to something like 40%. And it’s hard to know what to believe in terms of hospitalizations- it’s either 40% vaccinated or 97% unvaccinated. Why are reports so conflicting? At most, those vaccinated who tested positive were supposed to have mild symptoms, certainly not be sick enough to get hospitalized.

#BestBubby

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 4:13 pm

amother [ Lightcyan ] wrote:

This pandemic is not only in AMERICA! it is worldwide. People on here come from ALL over! Banging head

Governments world wide are power hungry.

Not only in America.

Learn some history.

amother

Aster

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 4:16 pm

tigerwife wrote:

. It’s depressing that the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine went down from 95% to something like 40%..

That is refering to asymptomatic cases. The reports about that that I read were very clear. Even with the efficacy going down with delta, the cases are largely asymptomatic, only realized they had covid because they tested due to exposure etc

the vaccine is still highly effective at preventing serious illness. Which is just fine. If it reduces it to a common cold or less, who cares if there are still cases...

amother

Molasses

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 4:24 pm

amother [ Pistachio ] wrote:

The virus itself gives better immunity. Science and medicine have data to back that up. So very happy for my grown brain!

Not everyone who gets covid does well. Just because you may have been lucky does not mean the same for others.

amother

Molasses

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 4:28 pm

amother [ Pistachio ] wrote:

Right. Like any virus… there are viruses in this world. People have died from everything.

Most people do not die from covid. You know that, right?

I can be condescending too- Not everyone who has covid and lives, fully recovers.

You know that right? Take my 40 year old patient who has been in the hospital for the past 100 days. She lived. She now has a tracheostomy, a feeding tube, a ton of medications she wasn’t previously on. She’s going to go to a nursing home where she may live forever while trying to get off a ventilator fully. Oh also she needs a double lung transplant. But hey, she didn’t die.

Oh also- there was no way of knowing that it would be her who did so poorly. Taking chances is costly. And she will pay the price for the rest of her life.

amother

Lightcyan

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 4:39 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Governments world wide are power hungry.

Not only in America.

Learn some history.

Obviously we all know that! I just can't stand it where people make as if AMERICA is the only place.
So write worldwide not as if everyone is from there.

amother

DarkGray

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 4:45 pm

amother [ Molasses ] wrote:

The vaccine seems to make it worse though for people who get covid after getting vaccinated. Of course, its being shoved under the rug bc the alternative would mean having to take the vaccine off the market and the govt clearly doesnt want to do that so they are letting people suffer for now as they push a vaccine that has yet to be fully studied.

Quote:

This is the story about my wife Jummai. She is a medical assistant who worked in one of the clinics in Minneapolis MN, where she was instructed to take the covid-19 vaccine. After receiving her second Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine on February 1, 2021 she started to experience chest pain at work. Three days after the chest pains I took her to Urgent Care on February 6, 2021. After the checkup, EKG and other tests, the doctor said there was nothing wrong with her chest and every test showed she was okay. She took a covid-19 test and the next day was confirmed positive. Jummai and I were shocked when we received the result that she was covid-19 positive because she had not manifested any symptom before taking the shot. But we later accepted that perhaps, the virus and the vaccine together contributed to the adverse reaction on her body based on the report of the Infectious Disease physician that Jummai was asymptomatic. So Jummai followed the CDC guidelines but then a few days later she ended up at Fairview ER and then was transferred to U of M medical center. The next day, 2/14/21 the doctor called and told me that her heart was deteriorating, her oxygen levels and blood pressure were low and she needed to be put on a ventilator. I gave approval for them to proceed with the ventilator as needed.

The Infectious Disease Dr considered the test results, Jummai's condition, the timeline of the administered vaccine and the onset of covid 19, realizing the vaccine might have caused the adverse reaction. But the Dr always concludes that this is just a theory which cannot be verified because they do not have testing equipment to clearly state that the vaccine has caused Jummai's devastation.

Whatever the cause may be, my wife is suffering unbearable excruciating pain and permanent catastrophic damage. The consequences of the adverse event are as follows: 1. Arterial blood clot; 2. Respiratory distress—ventilator; 3. Cardiomyopathy; 4. Anemia; 5. Damage to fingers of both hands and toes of both feet; 6 Ischemia; 7. MIS-Multiple Inflammatory Syndrome.

As a result of the above complications, the Infectious Disease Dr decided to forward the case to CDC. According to the Dr, after going back and forth with the CDC, they decided to meet to deliberate with many experts around the country in which about 70-80 doctors met on a virtual call to discuss Jummai's case. About 8 weeks after the meeting the CDC sent us a letter of their conclusions which stated that Jummai was infected with MIS-A and covid-19, but they cannot conclude whether the covid-19 vaccine contributed for now. Since Jummai's blood specimen which was taken at the onset of this nightmare is saved in the lab, we pray for God's provision of a separate body of experts who could study Jummai's very unique case to draw other conclusions. As the CDC related, Jummai's case is very unique. Since my request to be in that meeting was not granted, I submitted the following questions for the CDC experts’ response:

1. When her symptoms started, I was with her, eating and sleeping together, but I tested negative and did not have any symptoms. Why am I not positive?

2. If she got the vaccine before the virus or got them at the same time, did the clashing of the covid-19 and the vaccine cause such adverse reactions? Why didn’t the CDC or Pfizer let us know? Or why wouldn’t they ask everyone to be tested for covid-19 first, before taking the vaccine?

3. If the vaccine is meant to defeat the virus, either by destroying it or weakening its effect, why the adverse severe damage? If the vaccine did not work to defeat the virus, what role was the vaccine playing in Jummai's body?
On one occasion, the doctor called and told me that Jummai could die at any moment, but God preserved my wife's life in a miraculous way in response to all the prayers of the church. He has continued to do amazing things in her life, to which we testify. Three weeks ago, the cardiologist told us that Jummai's heart is 100% healed. By God's grace, this goes against the initial report which was that her heart would never be the same. To God be the glory! I have also appreciated God's grace of healing her from the life-threatening impact of the vaccine/Covid-19 destruction, but it has required high risk surgeries for amputation of both legs (below the knees). When those are healed, she is yet to undergo amputations at both hands. My experience on this journey has been so difficult but I can't imagine the excruciating pain mentally, physically and emotionally that my wife is going through. I can only equate her experience and challenge with Job's experience and trial in the sense that the challenges have come in degrees, one after another. She would have one challenge and we would thank God as overcomers and then the devil would present the next challenge and we would overcome yet again. Time and again, challenge after challenge. I wasn't asking why the righteous suffer and I also encouraged Jummai to take the same approach, not because we have a strong faith but because of the example of the heroes of faith like Job.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/22h.....enses

amother

Lime

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 4:47 pm

amother [ Stonewash ] wrote:

In the history of viruses, most of them mutate to become more contagious, but less deadly. It’s in the viruses best interest to infect as many people as possible, but not kill them.

This is true to an extent. The Delta variant is much more contagious so in countries where people weren't vaccinated the death rate may be lower but since there are much more people being infected there are still a lot of deaths. In countries where a large percentage have been vaccinated we will find out in the next few months just how effective the vaccines were in Israel, the UK, and the US.
I personally know a lot of people who had it - many who were vaccinated. In general the people who were vaccinated had milder cases. Many who weren't vaccinated haven't fully recovered.
We need to daven that the virus will mutate into a MUCH weaker strain BE"H.

amother

Molasses

Tue, Jul 27 2021, 4:49 pm

amother [ DarkGray ] wrote:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/22h9pf-fundraiser-for-jummai-naches-medical-expenses

Trump’s vaccine. He made sure the US helped fund it. He himself took it. And a go fund me is anecdotal at best.

And if you read her post- she had covid. Her symptoms and problems are from covid. 6 days after the second vaccine she wouldn’t have immunity.