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Halloween Party WWYD? UPDATE!
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 8:27 pm
The company I work for was formerly owned by a frum person and I didn’t have this new issue. It has since been acquired by a public company and frum employees are the minority.
My team is having a Holloween Murder Mystery Party , via zoom . They requested that we RSVP . At first I didn’t answer. But then I saw there’s a form to fill out and one of the options was “I’m shy, but maybe I’ll join”. I selected that option as I was unsure what to do.
Now the person in charge messaged me asking if I think another frum person I work with is joining since he didn’t answer. I’m assuming he didn’t answer because he’s stuck like me not knowing how to go about this. Is there a Halacha issue with dressing up on Holloween? Is it a religious holiday? Is this something I’m not allowed to participate in because I’m frum? Anybody know? I was thinking of asking a shaila , but figured I’d hear first if anyone else was ever in this position, specifically for Holloween?


Last edited by thunderstorm on Thu, Oct 14 2021, 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 8:52 pm
CYLOR. Reach out to people who are known to know the world of business, e.g. Rabbi Ari Wasserman. There are women who are big too who could give you eitzos. Hatzlacha!
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amother




Geranium
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 8:57 pm
No
A hard no
I’d think of a reason why you simply can’t make it
Good luck
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:01 pm
amother [ Geranium ] wrote:
No
A hard no
I’d think of a reason why you simply can’t make it
Good luck

I was just wondering what they are going to think if every frum employee on my team is a no show.
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amother




NeonPurple
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:07 pm
Since it's on zoom I think it's less problematic. It's a murder mystery party not a religious celebration. View it as that and as a team work event that you need to attend. If they do anything you aren't comfortable with you can excuse yourself early or turn off your video for those things and not participate.
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amother




NeonPurple
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:08 pm
I would reach out to the other frum employees and ask what they are doing. In general it's always good to have a frum work chat to discuss these things with each other.
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amother




Blonde
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:11 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
The company I work for was formerly owned by a frum person and I didn’t have this new issue. It has since been acquired by a public company and frum employees are the minority.
My team is having a Holloween Murder Mystery Party , via zoom . They requested that we RSVP . At first I didn’t answer. But then I saw there’s a form to fill out and one of the options was “I’m shy, but maybe I’ll join”. I selected that option as I was unsure what to do.
Now the person in charge messaged me asking if I think another frum person I work with is joining since he didn’t answer. I’m assuming he didn’t answer because he’s stuck like me not knowing how to go about this. Is there a Halacha issue with dressing up on Holloween? Is it a religious holiday? Is this something I’m not allowed to participate in because I’m frum? Anybody know? I was thinking of asking a shaila , but figured I’d hear first if anyone else was ever in this position, specifically for Holloween?


Why on earth are you even considering this??? As a frum Jew you do not attend!
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:11 pm
I regret that a prior commitment makes it impossible for me to attend.

They don’t need to know that your prior commitment goes back to Mount Sinai.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:16 pm
Seriously, give it a no. If you go, you make things harder for your frum coworkers who are staying away. Your colleagues will say to them “Well Thunderstorm is religious and she’s participating so why aren’t you?”

And next time it’ll be the “Winter Celebration” with Secret Santas and the “Spring Festival” with an egg hunt and yadda yadda.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:17 pm
Halloween has christian origins - I think Hallowed SAINTS day.

Not a LOR, but I think it is wrong to participate.

If it was just a mystery game it would be OK, but to connect it to a religious holiday? Doesn't sound kosher.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:26 pm
BTW, when I say CYLOR I don't mean to find out if it's acceptable but how to handle it elegantly.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:28 pm
amother [ NeonPurple ] wrote:
I would reach out to the other frum employees and ask what they are doing. In general it's always good to have a frum work chat to discuss these things with each other.
we are only 3 frum people on a team of about 50 or more .
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Stars




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:33 pm
I would skip. I used to skip work holiday parties when we had them and no one blinked. I’m willing to bet that not all of the other employees will show either.
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amother




Geranium
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:33 pm
Believe it’s pagan roots before the Christian part developed
Sorry you are having this dilemma
Have found it easier in the workplace In The long run to just keep the clear boundary
Hatzlocha
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:38 pm
Ok. Thanks everyone. I’m pretty sure I won’t join. I’ll come up with an excuse.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:38 pm
Honestly, Halloween is something that even non-Jews know people have issues with. It's clear you have to say no. The question is, how to do it. I'm sorry it's so hard. If this is a recent shift, you might have other complicated situations you'll have to deal with which is why I think having an IRL rav/mentor is helpful.
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little neshamala




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:42 pm
For those answering NO WAY, please realize it's not always so simple as that, and there may be other factors that complicate the situation.

I have no idea if this applies to Thunderstorm, but my personal experience was that my workplace would often have different holiday things, going out to eat together, etc
At first I made an excuse that I couldnt attend the holiday party, but then after the next two things that I bowed out on, I started feeling uncomfortable, specifically because it was hard to be "that girl that never attends off work fun things".
Everybody else was bonding and strengthening workplace relationships besides myself.
I did NOT need extra friendships, that is not at all what I was considering...but in a field like mine you really rely on each other, and if you dont have enough friends at work who can help you out, do a favor, cover for you etc, then it's not easy.

So I asked an adam gadol. A posek with extensive knowledge in this. I did NOT ask for a heter, just an explanation about what exactly is problematic etc.

Interestingly, he immediately asked if my not attending affects my workplace relationship at all. He asked a bunch of questions, and seemed to place a lot of significance on the value of being on good terms with your coworkers to facilitate an easier work environment. Then he gave me a bunch of clear guidance on what I can and can not do....x-mas party vs "holiday" party, halloween event without religious associations, sending workplace candygram valentines, pumpkin decorating contest, meeting for celebration food/drinks...etc etc etc. All things to consider.

And it was not at ALL so clear cut as "of course dont go".

Thunderstorm, I'd suggest evaluating what the implications of you attending or not attending these events are (keep in mind they will likely keep happening), and ask a shayla...
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imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:46 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
I was just wondering what they are going to think if every frum employee on my team is a no show.


They're think it's not part of your religion. And so what? I'd be proud not to attend.
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amother




Lightgreen
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:46 pm
zaq wrote:
Seriously, give it a no. If you go, you make things harder for your frum coworkers who are staying away. Your colleagues will say to them “Well Thunderstorm is religious and she’s participating so why aren’t you?”

And next time it’ll be the “Winter Celebration” with Secret Santas and the “Spring Festival” with an egg hunt and yadda yadda.


I agree with this completely.

It also makes things much easier if you set clear boundaries and then always just stick to them
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singleagain




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Oct 07 2021, 9:55 pm
little neshamala wrote:
For those answering NO WAY, please realize it's not always so simple as that, and there may be other factors that complicate the situation.

I have no idea if this applies to Thunderstorm, but my personal experience was that my workplace would often have different holiday things, going out to eat together, etc
At first I made an excuse that I couldnt attend the holiday party, but then after the next two things that I bowed out on, I started feeling uncomfortable, specifically because it was hard to be "that girl that never attends off work fun things".
Everybody else was bonding and strengthening workplace relationships besides myself.
I did NOT need extra friendships, that is not at all what I was considering...but in a field like mine you really rely on each other, and if you dont have enough friends at work who can help you out, do a favor, cover for you etc, then it's not easy.

So I asked an adam gadol. A posek with extensive knowledge in this. I did NOT ask for a heter, just an explanation about what exactly is problematic etc.

Interestingly, he immediately asked if my not attending affects my workplace relationship at all. He asked a bunch of questions, and seemed to place a lot of significance on the value of being on good terms with your coworkers to facilitate an easier work environment. Then he gave me a bunch of clear guidance on what I can and can not do....x-mas party vs "holiday" party, halloween event without religious associations, sending workplace candygram valentines, pumpkin decorating contest, meeting for celebration food/drinks...etc etc etc. All things to consider.

And it was not at ALL so clear cut as "of course dont go".

Thunderstorm, I'd suggest evaluating what the implications of you attending or not attending these events are (keep in mind they will likely keep happening), and ask a shayla...


This!

It's already hard to be the one leaving early in Friday and missing a whole month in September and April... Why make is harder

Besides, according to my best friend, (who's a practicing Baptist) Halloween isn't a religious holiday. Here is her quote that she said I should quote to imamother

"I mean, it started out as "All Hallows Eve" and was followed up with "All Saints Day," but that has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with superstition, nonsense, and a people who followed tradition and puritanical hype to a MacArthurian level of suspicion as opposed to reading and following their own scripture."

She also says there's nothing in the Christian Bible about Halloween and she's read it thrice.



And I bet, ppl don't even do it today bc of the pagan roots. They do it bc it's fun American culture.
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