WHY are our kids still getting homework

amother

Slateblue

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 7:48 pm

tp3 wrote:

No girls dont learn all about kibbud av vaim in school. They learn chumash, navi, yahadus, dikduk, halacha, social skills, and much more.
Your daughter is not your little slave for homework to rob away from you. Daughters are allowed to have hours of free time so they can decide how they like to fill it.
Doing your housework and childcare chores is not her mitzva of kibbud av vaim.

There's a difference between "slave" and giving a hand when needed. Children shouldn't be having the responsibility to run the house, but children should definitely be raised with some awareness that they need to step up and give a hand when needed.

Our job as parents is to give them lifeskills and help them develop good middos. Life skills include handling responsibilities, time management and awareness to others around them. Assigning chores to them takes care of the first two, but it should be done with understanding and flexibility. If it's during midterms or there's a fun activity, then the chore shouldn't be an obstacle to anything of that sort. And FTR, doing their own laundry and clearing their plates are not considered chores or helping. That's just basic mentschlichkeit to clean up after themselves.

But when the house gets very busy for whatever reason, be it erev YT or erev Shabbos, or if the mother is working late, kids should definitely step up to the plate and give a hand. Having them 'chill', while the mother is tearing herself apart just promotes self-absorbedness and selfish behavior. If the child herself is locked in her room studying for midterms, then obviously her needs are prioritized. But a older child shouldn't be chilling and yakking away on the phone, while her mother can barely catch her breath. That's not giving them their childhood, that's just teaching them bad middos.

tp3

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 8:01 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

No. Children should not be expected to help run the house. They should have plenty of time to be self-absorbed and chill with friends, that is how they learn about themselves and who they are. They can be asked to volunteer or help with specific chores but they are not there to complete our to-do list.
Children are not responsible to pick up the pieces we drop while juggling, and it is not bad midos for them to rather not be involved.
They are children. Even if they've grown so much that they're taller than us, they're still children.

amother

Slateblue

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 8:16 pm

tp3 wrote:

I didn't say expected to run the house. I specified to step in when needed. There's a big difference between the two. Parents shouldn't be taken upon themselves outside stuff that affects the household to the degree where they can't handle it. But even if you take all that into consideration, there will always be the occasional day - and erev Yomim Tovim - when there's just too much on the mother's plate. Children should be developing the consideration to step up as needed. They should gradually be developing awareness to such situations and step up automatically.

They can still be children in every which way. They can have their fun, chill, yak on their phone, go to camp, take walks and what not. None of those are affected by the occasional stepping up to the plate.
Life happens. And our children are all the better for being taught how to handle curveballs. Never teaching them to juggle stuff either, will have many being stressed out adults.

There's a middle road here, it's not all or none. And I'll be the proud mother to say that B"H my daughter is a great example. She's having a most wonderful childhood, chilling, yakking on the phone, night activities with her friends, camp, doing projects, doing chessed, and what not. Yet, B"H she's developed the awareness to those around her. She'll notice when I'm juggling too much, and she'll quietly step in to fold the laundry, or clear up the kitchen. All of her own doing. She doesn't feel pressured or obligated to do it and does it all so very happily. And I award her the same respect. On the days that she's overwhelmed, I step in and take over whatever minor chore is on her plate and will lend a hand with any of her stuff as well, if I can.

Raising a well rounded person is the objective.

amother

Clover

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 8:18 pm

amother [ DarkYellow ] wrote:

High school homework usually at least doesn't put pressure on parents.
I agree that you need longer lessons in high school. Don't you ever have double lessons?

Why can't high school students write at home if they want to? I would gove homework over a longer period of time so they can better plan their time.

School policy is not to allow writing at home, except for the final rewrite, and that is only at a time close to the due date. We want the girls to do the actual work in school and get guidance/support from the English teacher all the way along the process, not pester their cousins or friends and hand in polished work that doesn't reflect their own learning.

My point is that it's doable, even with short periods. I agree with whoever posted that sometimes students exaggerate their workload to avoid other responsibilities. But it's also true that some schools overburden their students, simply because there is so much to cover and never enough time, especially in our dual curriculum system.

amother

Tomato

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 8:20 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There has been plenty talk over the years about how much stress homework adds to our homes . Why aren't the schools doing something about it? What are we gaining in the long term? There are certain subjects that I understand are an exception and need HW, but overall why dont they lessen what's on the curriculum a bit and give the kids time to do their HW in school?

Some schools are. We don't send our kids to schools that pile on homework. We are very against it. They have our kids 8 hours. It's enough.

amother

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 9:23 pm

tp3 wrote:

[quote]

As someone else said, kibud av ve'aim is not davka doing chores, but I would want my kids to have enough respect that if they see me struggling with a few things they offer to help. But how can u say they dont learn it in school? I sure hope they do!! Along with many other important middos. I should hope the point of chumash, navi and dikduk etc is to learn the lessons the torah has to offer for life...

tp3

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 9:48 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

I agree with just about everything you wrote but the problem is with the words "step in when needed." That is vague enough for mothers to think their daughters do belong running the household.
I also think it's a bit much to expect teens to automatically notice when their mother is struggling and what they can do to help.

amother

Slateblue

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 9:57 pm

tp3 wrote:

I agree that it shouldn't be expected, but it's our job to raise them in a way that they develop that awareness. Some will develop it sooner, some will develop it later.

tp3

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 10:02 pm

[quote="amother [ OP ]"]

Quote:

As someone else said, kibud av ve'aim is not davka doing chores, but I would want my kids to have enough respect that if they see me struggling with a few things they offer to help. But how can u say they dont learn it in school? I sure hope they do!! Along with many other important middos. I should hope the point of chumash, navi and dikduk etc is to learn the lessons the torah has to offer for life...

Chumash and Navi teach yiras shomayim and emunas chachomim, in the curriculum I'm familiar with.
Halacha class they could be learning kibbud av vaim, tznius, hilchos lashon hara, shabbos, hashkamas haboker, and a number of others. Some of these teach midos tovos and some are straight halacha.
Why does kibbud av vaim take precedence for you over the others? That would not be my first choice if I had to choose. Like anything else, certain lessons will be learned right away and others later on in life.

tp3

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 10:06 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

I agree that it shouldn't be expected, but it's our job to raise them in a way that they develop that awareness. Some will develop it sooner, some will develop it later.

I would sooner raise them to notice when a friend or neighbor is struggling and what they can do to help. Not me. I'm their mother, I should not be needing them so much on a regular basis. I can hire help or lower my expectations or take shortcuts instead of relying on children.

amother

Slateblue

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 10:22 pm

tp3 wrote:

I disagree with the first sentence, but agree with the second. Chesed begins at home. Every person is first required to extend a hand to those who are closest to him and only then branch out. You don't skip over your family to help a neighbor or a friend. You don't skip over a neighbor to help someone at the other end of town, etc.

But as a mother, if I see that if my children have to step up too often, then I definitely need to restructure my setup.

amother

Slateblue

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 10:27 pm

tp3 wrote:

I'm not going to delve into the concept of kibbud av v'aim being a part of the aseres hadibros. I'll take it in a different direction.

What takes precedence is anything that is bein adam l'chavero I.e. kibud av v'aim and loshon hara. If you raise a child with respecting their elder and respecting other people, that is the foundation of good middos and feeds right into v'uhavtu l'reachu kmochu. Which is what the Torah stands upon.

Teaching them how to actually put that into action is what we parents are supposed to be doing.

tp3

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 10:29 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

Generally that's the rule, but we were speaking of teaching awareness. The awareness I'd rather them learn not from home but from people they interact with every day.

You sound balanced but many use the phrases "chessed begins at home" and "kibud av vaim" for their own benefit.

The things I hear from my daughter about her friends' responsibilities at home... it's just not right or okay. Daughters are not there to help raise their younger siblings.

erm

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 10:30 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

You are welcome to come to my house any time you want and do homework with my kids grade 6 and down. I don’t get home until 7:00 or 8:00, and then I still have to do supper (if my daughter didn’t, which she doesn’t always like to do) and showers and bedtime. If homework gets done before I get gone great, otherwise I’m not enforcing it at that time. BH there is excellent communication with all the teachers, and if any of my children are struggling, I won’t be blind sided at parent teacher conferences.

If a parent isn't home in the evenings, homework and night time rituals are a nightmare. Obviously if you aren't home before 7-8:00, you won't have time to sit down with your kids and do homework with them, especially if supper isn't prepared in advance. (I think children can help out, but I wouldn't make supper prep a nightly chore for a kid. It's not their responsibility) Perhaps you need a homework helper or tutor to come and work with your kids.

tp3

Thu, Nov 04 2021, 10:40 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

I instead prefer to teach vahavta lreiacha kamocha as a basis for derech eretz and other good midos.
Teaching children to help at home is not one of the hilchos kibud av vaim I teach or expect of them.