Are you afraid | Imamother

amother

Crystal

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 8:22 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

(1) Again, why the need for anonymity?

(2) Omicron isn't everywhere. As of today, Austria (1 case), Belgium (1), Botswana (19), Canada (3) Czeh Republic (1), Denmark (2), Germany (3), Hong Kong (3), Israel (1), Italy (1), Netherlands (13), Portugal (13), South Africa (77), Spain (1), UK (9). Sure, it may be elsewhere. But the epicenter that we need to be concerned with is clearly South Africa, not South America. https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/29......html

The current travel ban covers ban to travelers from South Africa, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Lesotho, Eswatini, Mozambique and Malawi.

(3) I can't be sure. But I can make an educated guess. Most experts believe that covid is no longer contagious 10 days after symptom onset, and after resolution of fever for at least 24 hours and improvement of other symptoms, for mild disease. For people who are severely ill, its more like 20 days after symptom onset and after resolution of fever and improvement of other symptoms may be warranted. Well, we know the people were improving, that's why they were being released from the hospital. And we know that most hospitalizations were occurring 10 to 12 days after symptom onset.
So to still be contagious upon release, they would have needed to have been very very ill and recover very quickly to be released. Unlikely, since we know that most severe cases take a month.

Not sure why it bothers to you how I post. You don't want to respond to "amother"...then don't.

Again, If omricon isn't everywhere then why are we taking extra precautions? And if we are, then we should at the southern border too. Be consistent.

You said many times we should be very careful around the elderly and vulnerable. So much so that we should force people to vaccinate or lose their jobs. But then it's ok to send people who can potentially be contagious near them? Maybe they were hospitalized for something else, and tested positive near the end of their stay and were still contagious. Again, be consistent.

SixOfWands

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 8:51 pm

amother [ Crystal ] wrote:

You should post under your own name because (1) its against the rules not to; (2) you are sufficiently invested in me that you are able to recall my previous posts. And you think they're important enough to raise -- ie, that it is vitally important to YOU to know to whom you are speaking. But you don't allow anyone else to do that about you, because you post anonymously.

Are you so ashamed by the positions you take that you would be embarrassed to have them attributed to you?

We don't THINK that omicron is everywhere yet, so we're taking precautions. It may be elsewhere and not yet detected. The additional precautions are being taken where most needed. We don't want another Trump, where we closed the door to some Chinese nationals but allowed in others deemed necessary to trade, and also didn't bother noticing that covid was prevalent elsewhere. At the same time, we don't want to shut down needlessly. Its a balance. Only time will tell if its the right one.

If you actually read my posts, you would know that I advocate for greater covid security at the border. At some point in the process, there is testing and isolation, but I don't have a handle on where, and it certainly needs to be very early. Earlier than it is.

I have never said that its OK to send potentially contagious people near vulnerable people. Early in the pandemic, we knew little. Cuomo was probably wrong, with hindsight, but his error is unlikely to be the primary cause of what happened in nursing homes, as opposed to asymptomatic aids and other staff, and patients who got covid from them, or from visitors. Its just amusing to watch the right scream from one side of their mouths "Cuomo is a murderer," and on the other "we have the right to eschew masks and vaccine requirements, covid's not so bad." Remember, they weren't being tested back then.

Finally, I've never taken a wholesale position on mandates. I wish they were not needed. I wish private industry would impose rules on their own. But they won't.

amother

Ebony

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 9:00 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Not picking on you SOW, but want to address these numbers.

Does anyone actually believe these statistics? I mean, yes, it's true that viruses do mutate and yes, it's true that there could very well be another strain going around and yes, it could be coming out of Africa. BUT how are they identifying these cases of new variants? PCR doesn't test for this. No doctor has any test which identifies what strain it is. And what makes anyone suspect, oh, this guy has a new strain of covid for sure? This is all very murky and I don't believe the statistics at all. There may or may not be a new strain. But I've lost all interest.

amother

Pear

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 9:14 pm

Afraid? No B”H
Even the guy who discovered this variant says it’s very mild
Interesting that the media and governments aren’t reporting so much on that part of it
So all the more so: NO
Coronaviruses and the like mutate and get weaker
B”H so not unexpected tho welcome info

amother

Maroon

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 9:33 pm

amother [ Milk ] wrote:

I'll ignore all your ad hominem attacks.

Pretty hard to ignore but if you want your day not to be ruined just ignore, ignore, ignore SIx Of Wand’s posts. They are full of cynicism, moral superiority, and disdain for anyone who disagrees with her. Look at how many of her posts starts with “LOL”. You can stick to facts, speak respectfully and she will still laugh at you and put you down. I literally had to go off this site for a full week after reading one of her posts. It was so jarring.

torquoise

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 10:05 pm

I wish the media would get bored of scaring people already Can't Believe It

I think most people are ready to return to normal life and let corona-shmorona be considered like any other cold or flu.
This is getting a bit pathetic...

SixOfWands

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 10:11 pm

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

Please mods, don't remove this. This is just an example of what I put up with here.

Pure and unadulterated nastiness.

amother

Periwinkle

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 10:48 pm

I am afraid of coivd period
I am vaccinated x2
Follow medical advice
and stay away from public gatherings

its ok

Hashem wants us now to shine at home

there is a lot to do at home

SixOfWands

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 10:51 pm

amother [ Milk ] wrote:

I'll ignore all your ad hominem attacks.

That doesn't mean what you think it does.

An ad hominem attack is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

Of course, since you break the rules and post anonymously, while attacking me, I am unable to make an ad hominem attack.

But I wouldn't anyway. I attack positions, not people.

amother [ Milk ] wrote:

Explain how healthcare workers would be spreading covid to their patients if they have natural immunity (which America is somehow ignoring so they are not following any "science"), are wearing a mask (which you openly admit doesnt work since you still want people to vaccinate), and its the vaccinated people who are spreading this new variant (as evident by the fact that its in countries that are only allowing fully vaccinated people into the country so you clearly cant blame unvaccinated people for spreading it) yet they dont have to test for covid which means that they can still be spreading covid.

Oh, dear. The compendium of misstatements! Where to start.

We had a thread today about people getting covid a second and even third time. Natural immunity isn't the be all and end all you want to pretend that it is.

Would I like to see very frequent covid testing -- not at government expense, sorry -- as an acceptable substitute for proof of vaccination? Yes. How frequent is a question. At least once a week. Maybe twice.

I don't "admit" masks don't work. They are very effective. But not 100% effective, particularly not those worn by the public. Moreover, we see how poor mask compliance is. People pull them under their noses, or take them off entirely even when mandated.

As to your claim that vaccinated are spreading new variants at greater rates than unvaccinated, provide proof. The fact that countries are only allowing vaccinated in doesn't provide such proof. The new variant originated in South Africa, where well under 1/3 of the population has received even a single vaccine dose. Limiting ourselves to the US, there is no vaccination requirement for entry from abroad.

Indeed, covid remains a disease largely affecting and largely spread by the unvaccinated. Are there breakthrough cases among the vaccinated and those who already had covid? Unfortunately. For the vaccinated, these are mostly mild. We know that the mRNA vaccines are about 75% effective against infection, 88% effective against symptomatic disease and 96% effective against hospitalization.

In early November, JAMA published a study of 4,513 hospitalized coronavirus patients at 21 sites in 18 US states from Mar 11 to Aug 15, 2021, with a 28-day follow-up period. The Delta variant became the predominant US strain in early July. Of the 4,513 patients, 1,983 were diagnosed as having COVID-19, and 2,530 were uninfected controls. Unvaccinated patients made up 84.2% of COVID-19 hospital admissions. Hospitalization was significantly linked with a lower likelihood of vaccination, with 15.8% of infected patients and 54.8% of controls, including for the SARS-CoV-2 Alpha (B117) variant (8.7% vs 51.7%; aOR, 0.10) and Delta variant (21.9% vs 61.8%; aOR, 0.14).This link between hospitalization and lower likelihood of vaccination was more robust for patients with healthy immune systems (11.2% vs 53.5%; aOR, 0.10) than for immunocompromised patients (40.1% vs 58.8%; aOR, 0.49) and weaker more than 120 days after receipt of the Pfizer vaccine (5.8% vs 11.5%; aOR, 0.36) than after receipt of the Moderna vaccine (1.9% vs 8.3%; aOR, 0.15). Of 1,197 hospitalized COVID-19 patients, death or invasive mechanical ventilation by day 28 was much more common in the unvaccinated (24.7% vs 12.0%; aOR for vaccinated patients, 0.33). https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/new.....-time

So now provide me data supporting YOUR proposition that more vaccinated are ill.

amother [ Milk ] wrote:

We also have medications that help (even as certain people try to limit and/or restrict it), most people are vaccinated so that should help them from getting covid (obviously that isnt true but that is the claim).

Monoclonal antibodies are helpful, but not as efficacious as vaccination.

amother [ Milk ] wrote:

The southern borders are open so anyone can come in from anywhere, you do not know where people are coming in from or who they were exposed to yet you have no problem with any of them coming in. So basically, you are a walking contradiction trying to convince people that the vaccine works but your actions (including firing healthcare workers, allowing unvaccinated people into the country at the southern border, etc) clearly shows that it doesnt work and doesnt protect anyone

The border isn't open, of course.

And I do think we need to do more at the border about covid. Of course.

You can check MY record. Which you find vitally important. But hide behind anonymity yourself.

Why are you so worried about covid at the border, but nowhere else?

If you're not worried about anyone else carrying it, don't want masks, don't want vaccine mandates, think its oh so easily treatable, why would it bother you if an immigrant had it?

As I've said many times, I think covid controls at the border need to be stepped up. Its clear there is testing and isolation, but its not clear WHEN that happens, so it would appear not to be early enough.
But why do YOU think that?

amother [ Milk ] wrote:

but you clearly dont care about it so dont give me this nonsense about what happened in early 2020 with the nursing homes (which wasnt coming from the workers but from the sick elderly people who had covid but were still able to go back to their nursing homes and expose other vulnerable elderly people to covid which is what was the problem to begin with and now you are punishing workers for it which doesnt make sense) when we have come so far yet you refuse to allow for things to work appropriately like they do in Florida. So why still push the vaccine or cause all this hysteria about the new variant when its clearly just fear mongering and an attempt to stop people from living life and celebrating the holidays with their beloved ones?

First, stop telling me what I care about.

Second, tell me where covid in nursing homes came from if not workers? Because there is no question that a large number of the patients were not new patients, but returning ones, who were in the nursing homes and contracted covid before Cuomo's order. Remember, nursing homes nationwide were very hard hit, even in places without similar orders. See, eg, https://www.wsj.com/articles/s.....70427

Back to my point above, finally. You claim its all hysteria. Fear mongering. An attempt to keep people from living their lives and celebrating their holiday. Right? Covid is not something we should be all that concerned about. So again, why do YOU care about the border? If covid is a hoax, why do you care? I've explained that I do care. But why do you?

amother

Ebony

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 10:55 pm

amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:

I am afraid of coivd period
I am vaccinated x2
Follow medical advice
and stay away from public gatherings

its ok

Hashem wants us now to shine at home

there is a lot to do at home

I'm sorry you're so scared. Must be awful to have those feelings for so long now.

And if you feel Hashem wants you to shine at home, that's great. Embrace it. Shine away! But speak for yourself, please. I don't feel there is any Devine will for be to be stuck at home or isolating myself.

amother

Crystal

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 10:57 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I care about covid at the border the same way I care about it everywhere else. But why doesn't Biden care about covid at the border to the extent that he cares about it everywhere else? And don't say the people stay at the border...there have been numerous articles showing how they are shipped all over the country.

SixOfWands

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 11:09 pm

amother [ Crystal ] wrote:

I don't know why Biden is not taking a stronger hand in dealing with covid at the border. He should. AIUI no one is being released into the general population without being tested, but that's still too late in the process.

But I'm confused.

So you think that we need a strong national covid protocol, demanding frequent testing, if not vaccination, and immediate isolation of anyone found to have covid? At the border and throughout the US?

Or ... what?

amother

Raspberry

Mon, Nov 29 2021, 11:20 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

But I DO want another Trump. And I DO want the southern border closed. It is complete hypocrisy to not allow legal foreign travel, yet to allow anyone to cross the Southern border. Its one big laughing stock.

GLUE

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 1:02 am

I just find it suspicious that new variants always seam to come up when the government starts opening up.

For example-Israel said they are opening up for foreigners now all the sudden there is a new variant.

LovesHashem

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 1:52 am

Is there no middle ground?

Am I so so scared when I get into a car and our on a seat belt?

No.

It's always a possibility that Chas vshalom something horrible could happen. I do my hishtadlus and don't worry.

Same with COVID. I'm followinf what's going on and I may take some more precautions. There's no reason to fear, Hashem is in charge and all I do is my hishtadlus.

amother

Lily

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 3:47 am

amother [ DarkGreen ] wrote:

Not variant, scarient. It is a tool for the media to keep selling.

Nothing has changed. Any sane person will be somewhat concerned when if they contract the virus. And if they have comorbidities, more concerned.

Just like a cold is a cold, a flu is a flu, covid is covid.

But it is big business to keep selling fear $$$.

Can you please quit? An entire industry of hardworking people who are just trying to make sure that you get accurate news and information is not just making stuff up "to keep selling."

Please. Just STOP.

I spent half a day putting up direct quotes from our leaders and health department. I don't make this stuff up.

When I see a scientist say that it isn't so scary I put that up and name the scientist. When I see a scientist warn of the long-term risks I put that up and name the scientist.

I don't do it to "keep selling." I do it to make sure you have accurate information - as much as possible - and can make informed decisions. No matter what I wrote about COVID it would get clicks - probably even if I took an article on Osama bin Laden and inserted "caused COVID" into 15 random spots in that article, the title, and subtitle. But I don't write everything. I only write accurate information, to the best of today's scientific knowledge.

So please STOP your vitriol. This isn't my fault. This isn't my colleagues' fault, or my bosses' fault. We don't deserve this kind of slander.

PS COVID crosses the blood-brain barrier and it gets into the nervous system, which is why you lose your sense of smell and taste. Now go look that up.

amother

Lily

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 3:54 am

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

This doesn't sound normal. Please get yourself some therapy.

#BestBubby

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 4:10 am

SixOfWands wrote:

First, can you explain what is so personal about anything that you said that makes you need anonymity?

Remember when you and your kind were screaming from the rooftops that Andrew Cuomo was a murderer, because he forced nursing homes to accept patients who were covid positive, albeit probably not contagious. Because we need to make sure that the people most likely to transmit contagion are not in our hospitals and nursing facilities.

Well, that's what NY is doing. Making sure, to the best of its ability, that workers don't spread contagion.

BTW, the omicron variant was first detected 5 days ago, well after the vaccine mandate. I know I have science on my side, but sadly, we cannot predict the future.

As to bringing up the Southern Border, there's no reason to believe that omicron is there. Is it really covid you're afraid of?

VACCINATED ALSO SPREAD COVID.

Ms. Science, please explain why the most vaccinated states and countries have the most covid cases and deaths?

Israel, UK, Gibralta, Vermont

Newsweek Headline: Covid Cases Surging in Five Most Vaccinated States.

While No Vax Mandate No Mask Mandate Florida has one of the lowest Covid deaths?

DrMom

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 4:18 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Our case rate has been pretty low for a while now.
And our hospitalization and death rate is low too.

Can you please cite your data?

amother

Holly

Tue, Nov 30 2021, 4:25 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Monoclonal antibodies are helpful, but not as efficacious as vaccination.

I respectfully disagree.
My DH was vaccinated twice with the pfizer vaxes.
He had a severe case of covid after two months of the second vax.
Had he not received the Monoclonal Antibodies Infusion he wouldn't have made it out alive IMVHO.
It took about 24-28 hrs for the MAI to kick into his system and during that time his symptoms worsened by the minute to the point of sakanos nafashos.