Would you stop keeping CY because of money?

Highstrung

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:43 pm

amother OP wrote:

1- our rav doesn’t hold that we would need to kasher. We use cholov stam formula in our sinks.
2- it’s not so easily accessible. There are times I have to go to 3 stores or go shopping at a specific day and time to get milk. My out of town city isn’t great in this regard. I have considered stopping for that alone (the aggravation and time that it takes to find milk especially at certain times of year).

Based on the difficulty of obtaining CY ,
I would ask your Rav. Your rav might say to at least use Chalav Stam for the kids , for milk for cereal and yogurts. Everything else you can still stick to CY. This way your DH won’t be affected at all. Have one CY bottle of milk etc.

ShishKabob

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:48 pm

amother Bluebell wrote:

If your rav says yes I would do it. Granted I don’t keep CY to begin with which according to some posters means my level of kashrus is subpar.

It all depends where you start off from and where you come from.
I would sooner hope the Rav would offer to subsidize the cy rather than tell them to stop.

Last edited by ShishKabob on Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Maple

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

Every half gallon is close to $5.

It’s such a scam that CY milk doesn’t come in gallon containers. Non CY, non OOT gallon of whole milk is about $4.50 (and I live in an expensive neighborhood)

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:49 pm

amother Bluebell wrote:

If your rav says yes I would do it. Granted I don’t keep CY to begin with which according to some posters means my level of kashrus is subpar.

It's not about how frum I am and you are not. It's about lowering standards but in a very real way. So maybe you wear pants and to me that's not frum. Whatever, you do you. Right? But then I can't say, it's hard for me to find affordable skirts, I will start wearing pants like thousands of modern orthodox jews do. For me it is a spiritual downgrade. I'm using pants vs skirts to illustrate that it's not something external like going from a white shirt to a colored shirt (gasp) but like a real religious level.

Ema of 5

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:49 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

It all depends where you start off from and where you come from.
I would sooner hope the Rav would offer to subsidize the cy rather than tell them to stop.

It depends on your outlook.

Frumme

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:50 pm

I wouldn't personally. I'd sooner use dairy subs or cut down on dairy than stop keeping CY. For example, TJ's almond milk instead of real milk, plant butter instead of real butter, coconut cream instead of real cream, etc. Or find ways to stretch the dairy/use recipes that don't rely on a lot of dairy. You can also get creative-- if there is milk on quick sale you can buy a bunch and make cheese out of it, then use the leftover whey to make ricotta or bake pancakes with it. Or make your own yogurt using a little yogurt starter from a store brand.

ETA I see you have a nut allergy so forget the almond milk, but you can also get oat milk! Planet Oat sells a shelf stable Pareve version

Last edited by Frumme on Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:50 pm

amother Saddlebrown wrote:

I wouldn't go down in a ruchnius area, in order to save money. Call me superstitious but I don't want that money to cost me elsewhere. Like I don't think that reducing your frumkeit can be a source of bracha even if according to the letter of the law it is permissible etc.

We have already cut down in gashmius significantly. I didn’t buy my kids any new clothes this year, we got all 2nd hand. We are very frugal.
We are almost to the point of asking for tzedakah and I would rather keep my pride and be self sufficient than ask people to finance a chumrah when there are so many other things we desperately need the money for.
Like imagine your kids backpack has holes and you can’t just buy a new one, you wait till you find someone giving one away.
Or your car needs new tires but you push it off till it’s almost not driveable for long distances.
I feel like spending money that we don’t have is not good for my emotional health.
We originally decided pre covid that we were going to stop (that’s when we were matir neder) then came the increase in food stamps(which is ending next month).

Highstrung

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:55 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

It all depends where you start off from and where you come from.
I would sooner hope the Rav would offer to subsidize the cy rather than tell them to stop.

No. My rav actually was the one that told my DH that it was really no big deal to change. It’s important to understand all the details of Cholov Stam. Many people who switch from CY to Cholov Stam don’t know the nuances and the halachos around it and some end up eating non kosher cheese because they think it’s a free for all and eat everything. But a person that knows the halachos , are following Halacha and they are doing absolutely no wrong.
I know that in certain circles they equate Cholov Stam to Chazer Fleish , but that’s a misunderstanding.

Last edited by Highstrung on Sun, Jan 29 2023, 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Banana

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:56 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

Shop rite chicken is cheaper than empire .
No bracha will come from lowering standards in. Kashrus.

If you are not Chabad, Cholov Stam has a totally different impact and reasoning in the USA. We don't believe it is treif. We hold it is kosher. We don't need to kasher anything, we don't need to buy new dishes etc.

It is totally not the same as eating shop rite chicken. Banging head

ShishKabob

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:57 pm

Cholov yisroel is not a chumra. I don't want to minimize the pain and the difficulty that you're dealing with this whole financial thing, it's real and I hope that you get a shefa in your money and parnossa.

amother

Maple

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 7:59 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

Shop rite chicken is cheaper than empire .
No bracha will come from lowering standards in. Kashrus.

How ignorant. Chalav stam is not the equivalent of eating non kosher

amother

Banana

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 8:03 pm

Your Rav said it is ok.
You have cut down anywhere you could and are not living a gashmiyus life.
You can't do other forms of protein- more expensive or allergies.
You are about to take tzeddakah.
You already use government food stamps.

I wouldn't feel bad about it. I would make sure the cholov Stam is reputable, like I would with any store brand kosher item (canned goods). Ans maybe I won't buy special desserts etc but I wouldn't anyways with financial issues.
I would also not make changes that will be hard to go back on (ice cream is much better?) And feel that IYH when finances are better we will go back.

amother

Mauve

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 8:13 pm

Speak to a rav. It’s more important to eat then keep cy.
Keeping cy out of town is very expensive.
My kids get to eat yogurts that if we would still be cy they wouldn’t be able too. Its more than double the money per yogurt.
It’s ridiculous the prices.

And for all of you that think my house is trief no worries you weren’t invited anyways.

scintilla

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 8:14 pm

No, I wouldn't. Money comes from Hashem and we create channels for brochos to come through by keeping mitzvos more bhiddur, not less. And regardless of your stance on cholov yisroel/stam it's definitely more bhiddur to keep it. That's my 2 cents!

I would explore alternatives first, I think oat milk is a good idea plus it lasts longer than CY milk, at least in my house!

Also, cereal is cheap but if the milk is so expensive, it's not a cheap meal anymore.

amother

Iris

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 8:15 pm

amother OP wrote:

Money is very tight. I calculated that we spend at least $150 more a month due to CY costs and I think its a no brainer that it is one of the easiest things to cut out (we have already significantly reduced our protein, limiting how much expensive food like eggs or chicken that we eat, don’t eat any meat, limit how many yogurts we buy, etc). We don’t eat luxurious meals by any standards (a typical supper would be a bean soup and rice ). My husband understands where I am coming from but says he can’t bring himself to do it. I would feel very guilty to make food for myself and the kids that he can’t eat (especially since he is the biggest eater in the family as my kids are little so not sure how much we will save if he still buys for himself).
What would you do?

I discussed this with a Rov because my dh was thinking of stopping
I was told it’s a big inyan to keep cv and not to stop
It’s not simple
You would also have to be matir neder

amother

Iris

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 8:16 pm

amother OP wrote:

We were already matir neder. My husband just can’t bring himself to eat it (after almost 30 years of only eating CY)

Yahsher koach to him
He’s right

amother

Iris

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 8:19 pm

amother Bluebell wrote:

If your rav says yes I would do it. Granted I don’t keep CY to begin with which according to some posters means my level of kashrus is subpar.

Well honestly it’s what Reb Moishe ztl also feels