10 minutes to tisha bav

amother

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 3:54 pm

And I’m dreading it.

I’ve been dreading it allll week.

I’ve been dreading it for the last 3 weeks.

I’ve been dreading it since last year if I’m honest.

Growing up, my father would not even allow us to read Holocaust books on the day because when we read they were liberated there was “joy”. We couldn’t go to the Chafetz Chaim video because there was acapella music. We sat on the floor all day and did nothing.

My mother asked me today what my program for the day was and I said the kids will be day camp from 1-6. Her answer, “It’s so sad that that’s your answer. Shame on you. Go to shul or some speech.”

And my personal churban, friends.

Share yours.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 4:50 pm

Hugs! I think it was Rabban Gamliel who heard a widow crying and that would lead him to cry so hard over the churban that his eyelashes fell out.
Every personal churban is in fact a churban. I hope you've been able to rebuild.
Do you have info for how to see the CCHF at home if you can't get out? At home you get bonus material your local showing might not have.

This is for a whole other thread, but here's the thing: Sometimes we might want to to be machmir on something. Our kids will be mekabel if on the whole, we're normative. I hope that you have the kochos to give your children what you want for them.

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 5:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

You've been through religious abuse. It's traumatic.
You're such an amazing mother, making sure your children have a different experience, sending them out so they can have a normal day. They'll get the TB feeling plenty until 1pm and that's enough and age appropriate. They don't need harshness or punishments. Just seeing you fast and being weak and hearing you say I'm fasting and sad because the bais hamikdash was destroyed, is enough and age appropriate for them to experience.
Take care of yourself. When the children are out, rest so you have koach and can get through the day. Read Holocaust stories and cry for klal yisroel. Triumph in the survivors being able to continue their lives afterwards and in their bringing more generations of jews into this world.
You've got this. Your past does not define you.
May moshiach come quickly and take all pain away.

DreamerForever

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 5:26 pm

Op, my heart goes out to you. I experienced religious abuse too, though not on such an extreme level. I too used to dread Tisha bav, and constantly try to distract myself from the fact that it was approaching until it was impossible.

I would tell myself what a bad, unspiritual person I was that I didn't care about it all. Then when I felt depressed on tisha bav, I would berate and criticize myself for being sad over 'petty things' instead of mourning the churban, which of course brought me down even lower.

I can't say I don't dread it anymore; but as I heal, I realize how wrong all that self-blame was, and that I truly suffered in so many ways and cannot minimize that.

Most importantly, I've begun to understand that really the crux of the loss of the Beis Hamikdash, is the disconnection. It's the disconnection of Hashem's close presence to us, and also as a result-- the disconnect of a person to his core self- to his soul. And when we feel depressed/ anxious/ self blaming; We are plainly disconnected from our higher self- which is pure love and goodness and purity!

Hence, to cry for that lack of connection is so fitting for the day.

Sending hugs, and whatever you think or feel on this day is ok. Be gentle with yourself. Hashem does not want you to be unkind to yourself.

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 5:30 pm

amother Lawngreen wrote:

Amein!

Liking this is not enough
Well said
In the darkness there is light
Hugs op

amother

Thu, Jul 27 2023, 1:16 am

amother Lawngreen wrote:

Thank you so much. This means so much to me. You got the first tears out of me this tisha bav.

As a side point I don’t see how liberation could have joyous to the survivors when they lost their entire world.

amother

Thu, Jul 27 2023, 1:24 am

amother DarkPurple wrote:

You were abused op hugs. That’stotally not normal for a momto say that. Thank you for being a cycle breaker and being a good normal mom.

To clarify she wasn’t upset that the kids were going to camp, she was upset that that was my focus of the day. The kids getting out and me having peace. Rather I should be telling her all the amazing speeches I was going to. (I’m not, sorry mommy. And I don’t feel bad, though you did hurt me a bit.)

I’ll give you another example.

When I was newly pregnant with my first I had blacked out in shul on RH. My rav and Doctor said I said stay home in Yom Kippur and not move. I stayed by my mom and me and 2 other pregnant sisters sat all day in the couch talking and davening. My mother yelled at me to go to shul saying- it’s your last year to be able to go! I don’t understand why you can’t get to shul, seriously. You’re not sick you’re just pregnant. Get over yourself.

I’m trying break it but it’s sooo hard. When your default is to yell mock and criticize for the sake of “chinuch” it’s so hard to undo the wiring even with all the therapy in the world.
BH I have no problem with the religion of my husband and my children, that’s not a trauma I pass down. But I do feel jaded around religion and it’s so hard for me to feel. Who can Daven and bentch normally when they were threatened every day to?

The other stuff though- the shame, blame, name calling.. are heavy heavy bags that I wish I can put down forever.

amother

Hibiscus

Thu, Jul 27 2023, 1:50 am

Did your mother know what the rav said? She thought she knew better?
Or was she yelling at your sisters who could've gone to shul?
What's the reason she acts this way?
Tring to wrap my head around it

Did you want us to share our pain
I'm afraid everyones pain will be too much to bear 😢
mine would be the places in life I think I failed
The pain in my relationships
The way my inlaws treat me and see me
All the baggage I carry and the dysfunction as a result

B'Syata D'Shmya

Thu, Jul 27 2023, 2:53 am

I think you have to recognize your Mother is who she is and put emotional distance to protect yourself.

I don't think you have to answer her every question with details that will trigger a hurtful response. Vague and general answers will suffice kibbud horim. So next time she asks just say " Not sure, depends on what my family needs. And you , please tell me your plans?"
You can also change the topic or suddenly need to end the call. If needed you can say you need to take care of a child ( the child in you). Your children need you to be calm and happy it's actually a mitzvah.

amother

Thu, Jul 27 2023, 4:28 am

amother Hibiscus wrote:

There’s no explanation. She’s crazy. And my father has religious OCD.

Yes please share if you can.

Thu, Jul 27 2023, 6:12 am

amother Lawngreen wrote:

... and I'll add that you don't have to disclose what your plan is to anyone, especially if you know you might be abused as a result. Do whatever you need to do to keep you sane and healthy emotionally. You're doing a great job.

Thu, Jul 27 2023, 6:15 am

amother Hibiscus wrote:

This is religious OCD, not necessary to wrap your brain around this.

amother

Papaya

Thu, Jul 27 2023, 8:01 am

Oh OP I totally get you. I grew up in a severely emotionally abusive home with heavy religious OCD. Tisha bav was hell. We all had to sit in shul until 2 or 3pm on the floor listening to endless boring kinos and then we would visit the cemetery in the burning heat. My kids watch tisha bav videos, go out and play for a few hours, and I watch the yoel gold video and relax. I've had enough tisha bav in my life and seen it all around me. Go easy on yourself.

PinkFridge

Thu, Jul 27 2023, 10:24 pm

amother OP wrote:

One of the speakers I heard today, don't remember who, said that being liberated by anyone less than Moshiach was especially painful. But they, or many, picked themselves up.
But they did. Google Dr. Giselle Perl. Get hold of Rabbi Frand's Listen to Your Messages and read the chapter called To Give Is Divine. Incredible stories about resilience.

How did your day go? I thought about you when I watched the CCHF programs this year.

PinkFridge

Thu, Jul 27 2023, 10:27 pm

OP, here's an exercise you might want to consider. But NOT now.
Imagine how a fully healthy and religiously vibrant parent would act.
You can act that way, even if you don't feel it. But when you imagine it, do you think this is something that might encourage you to feel better about yourself today?

Leave this aside for a minute: as blase as you may feel you are, you are heroic that you are shomer mitzvos and aspire to have doros who are too.