I don't understand Elul

amother

Apricot

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 10:05 am

OP - here's how I've come to terms with what Elul and the Yamim Noraim represent:

Take reward and punishment out of it. Take fear out of it. Take God out of it, if you want to. The whole idea, to me, is that we have a designated time, each year, to do some introspection, reevaluate our priorities, and hopefully, make decisions to improve ourselves for the coming year, however that may manifest itself for you and your life. The same way we have a day of shabbos every week to take ourselves out of the daily grind, focus on our inner selves and face the next week with renewed energy, the month of Elul and the Yamim Noraim do the same for the yearly cycle.

PinkFridge

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 10:23 am

Surkie wrote:

Pretty much felt this way as far back as I can remember. I'm totally a yiras Hashem person, not so much an ahavas Hashem. I'm kind of always waiting and expecting to get zapped, for the other shoe to drop even when good things happen to me. I'm afraid to be grateful to Hashem as I should be because I'm anticipating the next bad thing that may happen because I maybe did an avairah. My R"H and Y"K davening is pretty much asking Hashem that He doesn't give me any nisyonos, because I have no koach to deal.
Is that wrong because we're supposed to be v'ahavtah es Hashem Elokecha????

No. You're on the way. But there can be so much more.
Let's start with love.
Now, if you love someone, you'll be very careful not to hurt them. If they have allergies, you'd never serve a food with that allergen.
So this can bring us to a different place of fearing Hashem, fear as the flip side of love. We just want to be very careful not to do what we know doesn't make Him happy. And bonus: What does make Him happy is always going to be for our benefit, even if we don't see immediate schar.
P.S. and as for not having strength, I think Bibi said that we are tired. Lehavdil, we say, Hanosen laya'ef koach. Not ayef but ya'ef. Rabbi Schwab says that's a profound level of fatigue. We are tired. We are weak. You're not alone.

Last edited by PinkFridge on Mon, Aug 21 2023, 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Maple

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 10:23 am

amother OP wrote:

I appreciate your response but once again it seems to be in the realm of blind faith. (Which is fine.) You say that hashem doesn't want us to have tzoros and suffering. But hashem seems to inflict random people (some good, some bad, some righteous, some wicked, some religious, some not religious....just anyone) with tzoros. We have no idea what we did to deserve it. We have no idea what to do to remove the tzar. Sometime the rasha has their tzoros removed and sometimes the tzadik has their tzoros removed. Nobody has an explanation for anything. Why it came, why is stayed and why it did or didn't leave.

You sat hashem is suffering with us. That's blind faith. You can accept that "it says so somewhere", but it's not practically understandable. We have no idea what that means and we certainly can't understand it.

The idea that tzoros is a test doesn't make sense most of the time. Babies are born sick and suffer. Hashem is testing them? Women are abused and suffer. What's the test? To keep davening even though there's no yeshuah? We can say each tzara is tailor made but we have zero understanding of what that means and why it's happening. We can only have blind faith that there's a reason.

And let's keep in mind that the torah actually is presented somewhat is a vending machine. It says if you do A, B, and C you will be rewarded. If you do X, Y and Z you will be punished.

I was asking these questions not so long ago.

I know that it is hard to see Hashem as good when there is so much suffering and we know He made that happen. I couldn't daven or bentch for a very long time because I felt the words aren't true and I was being gaslit to be forced to say them. המלך הטוב ומטיב לכל- how can that be true? הזן את הכל- there are hungry people everywhere. And on and on.

I can only tell you that the blind faith became tangible see-able reality for me once I was able to let go of the pain and accept these precepts on blind faith. It took a lot of self-work and learning about bitachon, and about Hashem.

At the end of the day we admit that we don't know better than Hashem. Do I want the job of running this world? No thank you. Would I do a better job than the Creator Himself? Not even close. Am I the judge of justice? No. Hashem is.
Do things look unfair? You bet. But it's not my place to be the judge.
Do we want moshiach to take away all the tzaros? Yes please Hashem we've had enough.

The Shaar Habitachon book that I mentioned above as well as Your Awesome Self by Shterna Ginsberg helped me to understand everything on a new level.

I'm not eloquent enough to do that for someone else, I can only relate my experience and the truths I see. I believe it's something each one needs to learn for herself in her own time anyway.

amother

Wine

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 10:37 am

amother Apricot wrote:

Thank you, I really appreciate this

amother

Gladiolus

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 10:38 am

I don't know how I will view Elul when I have nobody in the school system, but for my whole life, it has fallen end of summer into school and I have been busy with getting ready for a new school year. So I have inherently had that "Let's work to set up a structure and routine to have a good new start for the year." I used to channel that into my tefillos, think on teh ideas, etc. These days, I view it more as "I'm going to do my job. I'm going to do it the best I can. I'm not trying to do it any better this month than usual, but this month is when Imbeing regularly reminded", either because of the year cycle or because people keep sending things, etc, kind of like Mother's Day.

Realistically, as a neurotic person who tries to get things to go to plan, I try to use Rosh Hashanah to remind myself that all that stuff that makes no sense? That's the deal- it never will. It's above me, and I won't get it, and yeah, often that feels rotten. And by Nesaneh Tokef, I basically let myself fall apart and have a crying fit. To let out all the emotion from the year about the things that got decided and I don't get it and it feels like too much. And the last line is hopeful and tefillah and I don't always fully believe it will happen, but I daven that it will when deserved. I basically shout "This is Your job!"

And on Yom Kippur I basically throw a tantrum. "I am doing this. I'm following your guidelines and doing all the things and yeah I need to improve and I'm working on it. And You know what I'm dealing with- You sent it!- so you get why I'm at where I'm at. And why I don't get how ir if this all works. So I'm doing what I can and now it's up to You to do Your everything. I'm a human being. You can't put it all on me whether my kids are messed up- You control a lot more than I do."

amother

Gladiolus

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 10:44 am

And what actually makes me feel like I can throw a tantrum is selichos at neilah. Moshe Rabbeinu was given the yud gimmel middos harachamim and told to used them when Bnei Yisrael need forgiveness. We use them through davening. When we get to the end of the day it's like we're desperate, we keep shouting them over and over again, because we're told this will work. It's like a little kid who once said something that got them whst they wanted from a parent and they keep repeating it over and over. That kid is powerless- his parents and teachers control his whole life. He's good, nobody notices, except sometimes, so that doesn't really help. He's bad, he gets punished, except when he gets away with it, and gets what he wants. That's us, from what we see. He'd loke to control his circumstances more but he can't.

So basically, Elul and Yamim Noraim equals work on being my best me within what I can do, and throwing the rest on Hashem.

amother

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 10:50 am

amother Apricot wrote:

I can agree with the second part of what you wrote. Introspection is good. Bettering ourselves is good. Improving our middos and our relationships is good. Finding ways to help others is good.

But how do we take hashem, reward and punishment out of Elul, RH, and YK? We are talking to hashem asking him to forgive us and to not kill us off. We nonstop ask him to give us life, happiness, money, and all our needs. We beg him to take out tzoros away.

I'm kind of at a point in my life where I want to be hones with myself. How do we take fear out if we believe everything we've been told since we were 10 years old that our entire fate is sealed on YK and our davening and actions will influence the judgement? Of course we'd be scared if we accept this. Same with reward and punishment. Everything comes down to judgement day. Our very existence will be decided upon and if we do enough good deeds we will tip the scale in our favor. Otherwise....

joystock

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 11:11 am

Thank you OP for bringing up this important discussion and for sharing your feelings honestly and vulnerably. There are many beautiful responses on this thread. You explained that you're looking for an answer that is measurable and tangible. I think it's impossible to really know what's going on for others, but my experience is that connecting to Hashem is what gives me the most serenity and happiness. A person can appear to have intense struggles and challenges, but if they are spiritually connected they may be living a joyful life. You wouldn't know that from the outside. These struggles should not be viewed as punishments, but opportunities for growth. I'm sure you know ppl who have it all and are unhappy, and others who have challenges who seem calm. I believe that it's the connection to Hashem that makes the difference. So when I use Elul to reconnect to Hashem I'm tapping into that relationship, and when difficulties arise I will be better equipped to deal with them and grow from them. That is in essence what life is all about. I try to focus on myself and recognize the good in my life and how Hashem shows up for me. My connection to Him is precious.

Surkie

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 11:20 am

joystock wrote:

I should daven that I get to your place!! Seems like a peaceful place to be 😇

amother

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 11:34 am

joystock wrote:

I have a similar or very parallel question when it comes to the idea of "connecting" to hashem.

I find myself stuck again because it doesn't make sense to me. The people I am connected to and have relationships with all have something in common. We understand each other. I know and understand my husband and he knows and understand me. He understand what makes me happy and sad. He knows what will put me in a good mood and what might upset me. Same with my family, co-workers, neighbors, and friends. Our actions are all mostly understandable and relatable. If my husbands actions were entirely random I wouldn't be able to live with him. Same with friends and the rest of my list.

With hashem we know what he wants but his actions and responses are completely unpredictable. We know he wants us to follow the Torah but his response to this appears random to us. Same with those that don't follow the Torah. They also get a random response from hashem.

I feel like we can't communicate with hashem because he doesn't communicate back to us in a way that we understand. He tells us to do A B and C and when we do it his response is random. Health or sickness. Wealth or poverty. There's seemingly no connection between our deeds and his response. So how does one have a relationship under those circumstances? I hear people say "talk to hashem", or "cry to hashem", but am I wrong that we don't understand his response at all? What kind of relationship is that?

miami85

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 11:45 am

amother OP wrote:

I was reading over shabbos that we are supposed to be a little scared in Elul. It's the month leading up to our judgement when our fate will be determined. We need to increase our good deeds and mitzvos to work in our favor to help the judgement go in our favor.

Does any of this make any sense? I don't claim to know hashem's system or how he works. But can we be honest for a minute please? He clearly is not deciding life, death, sickness, health, wealth, poverty or anything else based on our deeds. We all know righteous people who were struck down this year and wicked people that are thriving. And not only do we know of such people but I don't see the most minute, slightest connection between our deeds and worthiness, and hashem's judgement. If I'm being honest I's say the 2 are about as connected as the weather in Chicago and what color shoes I wear. That is they are completely and entirely not related.

We also know it says that teshuva, tefillah and tzeddaka will tear up the bad decree. Why don't I have the right to expect this be true? Why don't I have the right to expect it at least be measurable somewhat, even a little? Instead we are left with "it says it" so it must mean something but again, the people that aren't doing anything to prepare for judgment don't seem to be any worse off than those that do prepare.

And I get it. Hashem is hidden. The righteous suffer. But why act as if our fate is in some way within our control? It really doesn't seem to be the case. The people who got a cancer diagnoses last year aren't the ones who did less teshuva and are less deserving. The people that stayed healthy, married children, had easy parnassa, aren't the ones that did more teshuva than the others.

So once again I will go thru the motions and ask hashem for A, B and C. But I can't deny what I see in front of my eyes using the brain that hashem gave me. Our fates and lot in life seem entirely disconnected to how much we deserve it by devoting our lives to hashem and doing mitzvos.

You are asking the same profound question as Moshe Rabbeinu when he asked Hashem about "tzaddik v'ra lo, rasha v'tov lo". We don't understand the nitty gritty cheshbonos and how everyone's life looks. Rosh Hashana is about our devotion to The King. I just heard a piece of inspiration that may help. Rosh Hashana is about our "re-upping our portion for the coming year"--but it's like Dovid Hamelech says "achas shoalti...shivti b'veis Hashem col yimei chayai"--let me be "Your Servant in your house"--and like a servant of The King, all of my needs will be taken care of.

I've struggled with this concept of "how does She have it so good?" "How come I struggle so much?" but if you look at our highest tzaddikim in the Torah--Avraham, Yitzchak, Yaakov, Dovid, Moshe--none of them had "easy" lives. They all had tremendous struggles from infertility, lost children, being a refugee etc. The point is that they chose to serve Hashem and be devoted servants despite all of those struggles.

If we can view our struggles and challenges as "helping me achieve my potential"--like the tests of Avraham, like Dovid, like Moshe. We view ourselves like "Servants of The King""--then hopefully, The King will want our servitude for another year and will see our requests for life, parnassah as the tools we need to continue to be His servants.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 12:18 pm

Idk about everyone else, but I was never taught that if you ask Hashem for it, you will get it.

yes, we all daven for a good year on RH, but only Hashem knows what is actually best for us. I find that comforting. All we can do is try our best- which means: Yes, work on yourself this Elul, whatever that means to you. Yes, daven on RH, fast on YK. The actions will arouse your inner feelings.

Hashem loves us all. We do not see the full picture. He is not out to get us, chas vshalom!! Yes, it is hard to see good things happen to bad ppl and the opposite. That is life. full of challenges. Our job is to get thru them with flying colors and get closer to Hashem.

OP, and everyone out there with questions, I hope this helps. I am sorry, I do not have written sources, maybe go speak to a Rav/mentor

Thisisnotmyreal

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 12:32 pm

amother OP wrote:

Zochreinu lechaim Melech chofetz bachayim. Hashem wants us to have the brachos more than we want. Hashem wants us to healthy, wealthy, have children and be happily married MORE than we do.

Even in Lubavitch, I am unhappy about the way Yomim Noraim are taught to the children. While it may be nice to have an appreciation for what Chassidus has brought to the table, it's a lot more important to teach these inyanim from birth.

Schar veonesh is way more nuanced than what is commonly accepted. Din? Who in the world would I want to evaluate how everything is going in my life and what adjustments need to be made other than Hashem? The One who really gets me. Is biased and just anyway wants the best for me. The One who has infinite compassion.

A nisayon is not Hashem testing us. It's Hashem proving to US where we are really capable of being.

bgr8ful

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 12:37 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'm kind of at a point in my life where I want to be hones with myself. How do we take fear out if we believe everything we've been told since we were 10 years old that our entire fate is sealed on YK and our davening and actions will influence the judgement? Of course we'd be scared if we accept this. Same with reward and punishment. Everything comes down to judgement day. Our very existence will be decided upon and if we do enough good deeds we will tip the scale in our favor. Otherwise....

I think it must not all be as straightforward as we think.
Throughout the year our prayers also have power to change things. Otherwise we wouldn’t daven between rosh hashanas (I know, davening is also abt the connection, but we wouldn’t be making tehillim groups etc if we wouldn’t believe that it has an impact in some way). So is our fate 1000% ”sealed” on Yom Kippur? I don’t think so cuz it doesn’t add up.

I think that’s how things work but to a point. We also learn that our actions have nothing to do with what happens, like the words in beri webers song riboin (not sure where the pasuk is from) that says that despite our actions and what we do or don’t “deserve” Hashem is acting toward us with love and mercy, nothing to do with our actions. So (enter shrugging shoulder emoji. There isn’t such an emoji here?)

amother

Wine

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 12:42 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

This doesnt make me feel any better

amother

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 12:43 pm

amother Maple wrote:

It's learning to trust that He is good and knows what's best. That's how you begin to have a relationship.

Sorry if it feels like we are going in circles. The main question I have is really about whether much of what we say and do including our relationship with hashem is whether it is logical and makes sense, or is it mostly about having blind faith.

To me trusting that hashem is good and only does what's best is a classic example of blind faith.

Much of what hashem does is contrary to our human logic. Why innocent people get sick and suffer, why some can't find shidduchim, why some have mental illness, why some are abused......it makes no sense to us. Yet we repeat the words that everything hashem does is good and he is good.

How can that make sense to us? It doesn't. So that leaves us with blind faith, no?