Thinking of Aliyah

amother

Lawngreen

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 7:33 am

chanchy123 wrote:

Also their tznius standard tend to be super strict, they will look down at chareidi women with sheitals and heels.

This can be true, but in my experience Torani Israelis generally make exceptions for chutznikim. I was originally Torani but later became more charedi and while I got a few negative comments on my sheitel (all from sefardi baalei tshuvot women), it was nothing more than that. And other torani people called them out on the inappropriateness of their comments. High heels can get you 'in trouble' in charedi circles too, depending on how modern or conservative you go.

Torani usual dress in loose clothing, mitpachat covering most if not all hair, with or without socks, usually skirts down to ankles. IMO they're dressed in a way which is not only the most comfortable and sensible for the climate, but also most genuinely modest.

chanchy123

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 7:40 am

amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote:

You’re right. It just struck me how funny it is that someone would think that anyone would feel their modesty standards would be in any way compromised by transitioning from a chareidi BY environment to a very Torani environment, is anything they might have to increase their tznius level to blend in.

ETA
That an OOT BY would probably be more like a DL ulpana than a chareidi than a standard Israeli BY.

Success10

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 7:43 am

I still think Zionism is a biggie. A US family that identifies as some sort of Yeshivish will need to at least do some research to understand what Zionism means over here. If they truly don't believe in those things, I don't see how they can raise their kids in a DL or Torani school system and expect them to turn out well adjusted.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 7:45 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

Here is a breakdown of the new RBS Neighborhoods.
RBS G1- no chassidim, majority of modern israeli charedim and second generation anglos, a bit of everything else
RBS G2- Chassidim of all kind, many yeshivish and modern yeshivish anglos- mainly in the wolfson projects, a bit of everything else
Mishkafayim- no chassidim, lots of modern anglo and modern yeshivish anglo
M3- mostly Dati leumi anlo and not with a mix of everything else
Hope this helps

There's a large chassdish community with a rebbe and all in G1 - Idk where you get your information from. All the streets under Yona Ben Amitay are mainly a branch of Vishnitz. There was a whole bonfire this lag baomer with the rebbe and like 300 chassidim. People come from other cities for chagim to visit him.

In addition there's an entire Yerushalmi community in G1. There's multiple yerushalmi shuls in G1. The anglo american yeshivsh crowd is centered by Chavakuk area. Gimmel is very very vast. There's a sephardi community under Yona Ben Amitay too!

There's not a single litvish shul in G2 as far as I know. There's a breslev shul and a couple shabbos shuls and the rest of Chassidish - keep that in mind. I do know many anglos who live there though.

LovesHashem

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 7:48 am

chanchy123 wrote:

A. As long as you’re not anti-Zionist then there are many DL who are also not gung ho Zionists. I.E. There is a range everywhere, it’s ok to be on the less Zionist range.
B. I don’t think you have had much interaction with Torani communities. There are plenty of Torani people who do not let their children have ANY access to secular culture and allow very limited video exposure (and even then only to frum content). Also their tznius standard tend to be super strict, they will look down at chareidi women with sheitals and heels. Not everyone is to that extreme of course and their is a range like everywhere else. But if this is what you’re looking for you will find it too.
Torani circles are very strict in following Halacha, dress very modestly, limit secular cultural exposure, have a strong emphasis on learning - not everyone is super extreme but some are. I can recommend schools and communities.

I hear that. But mainstream yeshivish culture is very anti zionism. Anti the state.

Sometimes I do feel like I'd fit into that culture a lot more. Besides for the fact I don't want my children in the army, I don't celebrate Yom Haatzmaut, and I wear full socks and make sure all of my hair is covered.

There's a lot of ideology that we disagree on - but the way of life and the way I dress make people think I'm more DL than Chareidi.

LovesHashem

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 7:51 am

Success10 wrote:

Exactly. Which is why many of them feel forced to be Chareidi.

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 7:51 am

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

I live in G2. My information is only based on my own observations. If OP is serious about RBS she should speak to a realtor and find some helpful locals in the areas she thinks might be for her.

In general, in all of RBS (except for RBS B) you can find almost every shade of the rainbow.

amother

Beige

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 7:51 am

Success10 wrote:

Their kids would likely want to go to the army or national service (girls). If the parents are adamantly opposed to this, it wouldn't work.
If the parents don't mind, then I don't see why it can't work.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 7:54 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

I've been here for 8 years - you can find all different types in RBS B too! It's quite vilified.
There's a lot of litvish people there, and all types of chassidish people with all types of ideas. The people who are crazy make the most noise - their quit litvish neighbors don't make the news.

There's very few anglos there but there is a community somewhat - I know a few anglo there, chassidish and litvish.

Success10

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 7:56 am

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

I just don't think most OOT US families really even know what those things mean or entail. It just involves research into the core hashkafa of each group, and the willingness to make a few changes to fit in accordingly. It also means accepting the fact that they may not be good candidates for Aliyah.

chanchy123

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 8:01 am

Success10 wrote:

On the contrary, if they don’t have any real strong onions either way - this should not be a criterion for finding a community and should research other criteria that are important to them.
Not having a strong opinion either way on Zionism should not be the deciding factor on Aliyah. That’s ridiculous.

Success10

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 8:04 am

chanchy123 wrote:

They should just know what it entails ahead of time. If they are indifferent, they could fit anywhere. But if they do have opinions, they need to find the right hashkafic fit. And if they have strong opinions, and they are not willing to make changes to fit in certain places, they are better off not making aliyah.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 1:21 pm

If you consider yourself oot yeshivish you can find yourself in Rechovot or more likely RBS. RBS has the whole gamut hashkafically from chardal, chareidi light, american chareidi, israeli chareid, chassidish leaning and really chassidish.
Many of the yishuvim have a very strong DL or chardal flavor.
Speak to nbn or get names of schools and real estate agents who can help you navigate

amother

Pewter

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 8:36 am

We’re OOT yeshivish. My kids follow the in-town styles and have a bit of a NY accent even though dh and I are bts living in the Midwest, and most of their friends have strong family connections to Lakewood and go in all the time. Leaving aside the major issue of aliyah with teenagers being risky, where would our family fit in? DH wears a black hat on Shabbos but has a treif phone, the teens and I have kosher phones. We allow the kids to watch some parve videos streaming on Amazon but only with supervision. We are okay with carefully vetted secular books for our kids. I wear a tichel most of the time including for work but have a shaitel for school events and shul so the kids won’t be embarrassed. We prefer a simple lifestyle with minimal gashmius except for what our kids need due to peer pressure. We love the outdoors and go hiking a lot, I garden and have chickens, love being around creative and growth oriented down to earth humble open minded people. What “type” would we be in EY, and where would it be best for us to live if jobs weren’t an issue ( which they probably will be). Thank you so much!

chanchy123

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 8:51 am

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

We’re OOT yeshivish. My kids follow the in-town styles and have a bit of a NY accent even though dh and I are bts living in the Midwest, and most of their friends have strong family connections to Lakewood and go in all the time. Leaving aside the major issue of aliyah with teenagers being risky, where would our family fit in? DH wears a black hat on Shabbos but has a treif phone, the teens and I have kosher phones. We allow the kids to watch some parve videos streaming on amazon but only with supervision. We are okay with carefully vetted secular books for our kids. I wear a tichel most of the time including for work but have a shaitel for school events and shul so the kids won’t be embarrassed. We prefer a simple lifestyle with minimal gashmius except for what our kids need due to peer pressure. We love the outdoors and go hiking a lot, I garden and have chickens, love being around creative and growth oriented down to earth humble open minded people. What “type” would we be in EY, and where would it be best for us to live if jobs weren’t an issue ( which they probably will be). Thank you so much!

Metzad. If you’re ok with living over the Green Line. It’s chareidi but has many “new-chareidim” many people have treif phones but many people also don’t. It’s a bit out there, small town, simple, there is a sheep farm and in pretty sure you can have chickens if you want. There is plenty of nature and Stunning vistas It has a more OOT feel and quite a few olim or second generation to olim, some BTs there is a local Talmud Torah and next year they’ll start a girls school. They’re selling relatively cheap homes right now. There are buses to JLM but not super frequent. It’s where chareidim here move to get out of the rate race and rigid rules.
I can’t believe I haven’t thought to recommend it on here before.