What's an acceptable mark for not studying?

amother

Freesia

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 8:20 pm

Optione wrote:

School is long and hard. I wouldn't push studying if they're at least getting 85%. While it's true that they could do better, it's not worth it to have the tension of requiring them to study.

Yes but 90 would be the cutoff for me.

If my kids are smart enough to get 85 without studying, I'd like them to study a bit to get a 90 and up.

Good grades make a huge difference when applying to sem and hopefully college.

If they could get an 85 without studying, they can get a 90 with studying.

amother

Daffodil

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 8:21 pm

My kids are BH students who don't need to study for many tests. (I have a high schooler, two middle schoolers, and one elementary schooler, as well as younger kids who don't count here.)

To start with, we do not care about grades. I have one son who was in a class with a rebbe who took off for inane details, or for things that were out of his control (for coming to class late when the bus came late, for example). He knew the material, but would still come home with a grade that didn't reflect that. I didn't care, and spent the entire year telling him that he would grow a lot this year, into a person who realizes what I've always been telling him: grades don't mean anything.

But my husband and I believe in having a strong work ethic, regardless of whether a class is easy or hard. My husband's rebbe used to say "If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right" -- at the time, he was talking about the college classes my husband was taking, and he told him that he should aim to excel even though all he needed to do was pass. (Long story about why.) The reason was because it's important to build up the middah of putting in effort, no matter what you're doing.

That's the message we impart to our kids. So yes, sometimes a kid will come home and say "I have a math test tomorrow, and I know it all." If they get all of the material correct but make a careless error or two, great. If they obviously didn't understand something, it's obvious to them that they didn't know it all, and next test they should at least look over their notes just to make sure they really know it.

Even my very bright kids, though, do have to study for certain tests, like history, that have a lot of details that you can't possibly remember 100% of after hearing them once. So yes, on those they have to at least review their notes and make sure that they know it all. If they said they didn't need to review, I'd expect a 95 or so. Otherwise, again, it would mean that for the next test, they really do need to review.

Kodesh they always study. It's called chazarah, though, not studying, and it has value in and of itself. (My older three are all boys. Could be that it would be different for girls.)

amother

Strawberry

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 8:24 pm

giftedmom wrote:

All grades are okay in our house

Same here! It's a non issue. We never talk about it and we don't make a big deal about it. It's so silly.

My kids sit for 8 hours a day in a stuffy classroom listening to boring teachers drone on about subjects they may not have any interest in. That's enough "trying" for me. I don't get involved if they study or not and I never comment on grades.

They have such a short slice of time at home and I don't blame them if they want it to use to relax or for creative pursuits.

I also want to say that I was a super studious straight A student. I never thought I would say the above. But then I married my husband who did not do great in school and his parents drove him crazy about it. He always promised himself that he would never do that to his kids, even as much as the smallest comment about a grade. I've had alot of conversations about this with my dh and I really came to see how his perspective is correct.

amother

Strawberry

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 8:28 pm

I also dont believe in all the fearmongering that if they don't study they will never develop a work ethic or take responsibility or learn to apply themselves.

Puhleez.

My husband did not do well in school and is super responsible and hardworking in his field. My brother flunked his way through school and everyone always worried what was gonne be with him. Guess what, he is married with kids and a few years into marriage decided to go back to school for both a BA and MA. And boy did he study and apply himself... I think we can all come up with numerous examples of this

Most of the time parents' concerns over grades comes from their anxiety and their desire to see their children get good grades. Not because it will really have any long term ramifications.

amother

Razzmatazz

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 8:32 pm

I don't believe in going crazy with marks. At the end of the day it doesn't mean anything. I was not a good student, didn't go to a good seminary and guess what? I got married first in my grade of 90. I have work now and warn money, own a home etc. Makes no difference. I want my kids to enjoy when they are home. Happens to be in my house only one child has lots of tests so far and I have her review and study a couple times and that's it. She needs time for herself too. I don't really care what grade she gets as long as she did her best.
I have other children in school but they don't seem to have nearly as much work and tests as her. (All in separate schools)

amother

Strawberry

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 8:35 pm

I don't understand choosing an arbitrary number that your child must get above. There are so many factors that affect test taking, and those factors could be the reason a child does not get above that number, not because they didn't "try."

Maybe the classroom is too hot and the child can't concentrate. Maybe the child doesn't understand a question and the teacher didn't explain it. Maybe the child was out with flu for a few days and never properly understood the material. Maybe the child got into a fight with someone on the bus and is agitated from that and can't focus.

And all those saying 85 and 90, what on earth is wrong with a 70? 70 means they knew the majority of the material! We're so hard on kids! If I have a "to-do" list for a sunday and I accomplish 70% of it by the end of the day, I'm pretty satisfied with myself. But a child who gets a 70 should feel bad?! 70 is great! It means they got more questions right than they did wrong!

I'm honestly shocked at how many posters here insist on 90+. The few top students get 90+. It's not the expectation for everyone.

amother

Navyblue

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 8:38 pm

amother Strawberry wrote:

I insist on a 90 of the kid says "I know it and don't need to study". If they put in some effort, I ignore the number on the page.

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 8:41 pm

amother Strawberry wrote:

Flunking your way through school has ramifications. I have a very bright nephew who did that, and when he decided to finally get his act together, he first had to study for his GED, then he was only accepted into community college, and only after maintaining a high average in community college for 2 years could he apply to a city college. And at that point the kid has to be really motivated, and it might set them back as far as potential shidduchim and when he can start dating, if being close to making parnassah is part of the equation. Not sure why we wouldn't try to avoid this situation.

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 9:23 pm

amother Strawberry wrote:

Unless the classes are graded on a strict curve as in law school, the whole class can theoretically get a 90, why not? 70 isn't an aspiration unless it's a subject the child struggles with (or the child overall struggles with academics).

amother

Gray

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 9:48 pm

amother Strawberry wrote:

I don’t think you understand the point of this thread. This thread is talking about kids who get these grades without studying at all. This doesn’t apply to all kids, as others have said it’s really not your average kid who can blow off studying entirely and get 90+ consistently.

giftedmom

Thu, Sep 21 2023, 10:14 pm

amother Honeydew wrote:

Maybe because not all of us think that college is the way to success, at least not the only way, and certainly not the way to marriage