S/O babysitters | Imamother

amother

Emerald

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 2:49 pm

qwerty4 wrote:

The attitude towards babysitters I encounter on this site is not very realistic.
In the real world, you sometimes need to send your child to a sitter. Sometimes overnight.
Not always do you have a grandmother to fill in.

Overnight babysitting by a non family member is very rarely a need. Unfortunately there are cases of illness or death where it is, but for the most part this is not something q child should encounter.

ETA besides going to the hospital to give birth, which should be prepared well in advance.

amother

Pansy

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 3:49 pm

amother Oak wrote:

I have never researched this. I have looked into the babysitters I send to and don't worry about what others are doing. However all the moms I know love and care about their babies so I would assume they are doing what's best for their babies.

I give you the award for being the best mom! Yay for you that you can keep your kids home with you, hold them all day, never let them cry, and never sleep train! The rest of us are probably terrible moms for needing to earn a living and sending our kids to babysitters at a young age, to babysitters that don't meet their needs, and have too large of a ratio. Iyh we should all be financially successful so that we can be just like you!! Thank you for all the awareness you have provided on this thread!

Convenient that this is when you chose to stop replying. Personally attack me and then leave. When I never attacked anyone personally on here.

amother

Hyssop

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 4:08 pm

amother Peony wrote:

but theres no way to prove thats how your kids turned out.. and good for you that you were able to do all this!! for real!

I just dont think that doing something in another way will cause the opposite outcome..

also my kids have been in daycare since a really young age and both have the most amazing immune systems.. rarely get sick.
and amazing social skills for their age Smile

im very much not discrediting you.. only pointing out that its no guarantee for great kids

Absolutely no guarantee. But I educated myself on the science when I first became a mother and I felt it's the right hishtadlus. And I don't really know how my kids will turn out until they're all adults, and were not there yet. But a part of my point is that I was able to be somewhat more laid back once they were older, I'm telling you I'm for sure not the best parent out there ( I do work many hours a day) and I don't take parenting classes and I'm not much good at discipline or validating emotions or whatever, I feel like they're doing a lot better then they should be based on my current effort investment, because I put in the effort during the first years. Of course we'll never know but I certainly don't regret my parenting style.

Just to be clear though, I was able to do it because they weren't very close in age at all. If I had several little ones it would probably be impossible. And it would be impossible for me to have them Close because I did nurse clean for almost 2 years....

amother

Hyssop

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 4:27 pm

amother Emerald wrote:

Exactly. My good friend does long term babysitting. Sometimes she'll get babies whose mothers gave birth but other times she'll have a baby for a week who's mom took a vacation. Or is marrying off so she sends the baby away for the entire week of the wedding. The child is a complete stranger to this woman. This is considered normal in our circles.

amother

Pansy

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 5:04 pm

amother Hyssop wrote:

That’s crazy. How do the children react when they are by your friend? So sad to think about this. How do the mothers justify it?

amother

Hyssop

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 5:09 pm

amother Pansy wrote:

That’s crazy. How do the children react when they are by your friend? So sad to think about this. How do the mothers justify it?

They justify it by holding the viewpoint that a vacation Is a necessity and that being unencumbered from aufruf to shabbos Sheva brochos is also a necessity. Or re weddings they think it's easier on the child to be in one place for the week rather than another sitter every night. I don't know. But it's certainly considered normal, they aren't all emergency situations. I'm a bit of a yenta who asks my neighbor about every baby I see her babysitting.

amother

Pansy

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 5:17 pm

amother Hyssop wrote:

How do the kids act when they’re by her? Are they totally traumatized? Are they terrible? Quiet all the time? How do they react when their mother comes back? Up to what age kids are left? I’m so curious about this.

amother

Hyssop

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 5:22 pm

amother Pansy wrote:

They usually seem quiet and calm. Some are babies but some toddlers. I don't know if docile and quiet is any better, maybe the child is too afraid and confused to act out. I've only seen these kids with my neighbor/friend so I can't way in about their reunion with their mother.

amother

DarkGray

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 5:42 pm

amother Hyssop wrote:

I haven't and wouldn't send kids to an overnight sitter, but I happen to agree that it may be better for the child to be at one place for the week, vs a different sitter every night.
The people I know that have left toddlers overnight at a sitter, it's at their regular everyday sitter or their daycare morah. Not a stranger to the child. My son's morah often has kids staying the night/several days, for whatever reason.

amother

Hyssop

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 6:41 pm

amother DarkGray wrote:

The day of the wedding may be very hectic and the morning after the mother may need to sleep in, so it's understandable that the child is sent away for 24 hours or so. But other then that why should the baby be away for the entire week? Because it's a hectic week so it can't have it's mother at all? Seems unnecessarily cruel to me and yes I've married off a child with a toddler at home.

This neighbor of mine only does long term babysitting, not daily. So these kids are all strangers to her. And she's a loving warm person but she's told me that when she needs a break she sends them to another woman In the area who does drop-in daycare. That place is a chaotic madhouse where the babysitter pretty much just ignores the kids in her care.

amother

Ballota

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 6:50 pm

amother Pansy wrote:

I don’t think anyone here was arguing that it’s perfectly ok to let your baby scream for half an hour so you can fry chicken cutlets. They’re saying that it’s ok to stick a baby in a bouncer for two minutes so you can take a hot pan out of the oven, or to put them on their mat for 3 minutes so you can go to the bathroom, or even to put them in their crib crying for 5 minutes so you can give your full attention to your 8 year old who just got off the bus and just started a new school and is having a hard time and really needs a few one-on-one calming minutes with you. In all these scenarios, your baby is in a safe and familiar environment and will be duly comforted by a familiar caregiver within a short amount of time. And they will not be harmed.

ETA: And in those cases where there is no choice but to let your baby cry for longer periods of time, like if they are crying in the car anf you are not able to stop and comfort them for 30 minutes- that is ok too. They can hear your voice, the rest of the car environment is hopefully calm, and hopefully it’s not a situation they are in multiple times a day.

Pansy, your posts are so in-depth and informative and thank you for your insights. I disagree with you though about being so flippant about a baby crying 5 minutes here and there. There is the long term that we are discussing and hopefully with a secure attachment and the severity and frequency not being too intense it won’t leave long lasting harm.

Life happens to all of us and surely there will be scenarios where babies cry as mom needs the bathroom or something important.
But it shouldn’t be the way of life. Not for the long term but even more importantly for the short term.

Because for the present we have a baby in distress and the same way we should have compassion on older children we need to have compassion for a baby in distress. We shouldn’t be flippant about it and we should try to minimize it as much as possible.

Your example of leaving a baby to cry for 5 minutes to cry in the crib so you can talk to your 8 year old may be well intentioned but it’s wrong. Give your 8 year old a hug and a snack with the baby and find a few minutes a bit later to have your in depth conversation. It’s possible to do both, hold your baby and tend to them in general as soon as possible and be a hands on mother to your older children. It’s not easy but very doable.

amother

Ballota

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 6:54 pm

amother Alyssum wrote:

Seriously. I know parents who "sleep trained" their kids (although 30 years ago it wasn't called that) Literally said goodnight to baby at 9pm closed door to room and didn't open it again until 7am. I'm sure their babies cried for many hours. Now those "babies" are in their 30s and 40s and their doing just fine. Have normal jobs/families. I'm sure they also have hidden issues or whatever, but so does everyone.

I'm not advocating for sleep training or sending kids to neglectful sitters. FTR, I've never done this with my own kids. But seriously all, take a chill.

I wonder if we are talking about the same family. I know a family that did that and there are so many issues under the surface. Yes, they have jobs and families. Yes, there is so much suffering.
For a mother to do that I have no words. It’s cruel plain and simple.

amother

DarkGray

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 7:00 pm

amother Hyssop wrote:

This neighbor of mine only does long term babysitting, not daily. So these kids are all strangers to her. And she's a loving warm person but she's told me that when she needs a break she sends them to another woman In the area who does drop-in daycare. That place is a chaotic madhouse where the babysitter pretty much just ignores the kids in her care.

Oh my, the bolded is so not Ok! This is way worse than leaving kids with sitters.
You're right, there's no reason for toddler to be away the entire week of the wedding. But on the other hand, it does make more sense for toddler to be at the same place for a week, then a different sitter every night. Marrying off kids while still having babies at home, is a very very difficult stage for a mother to be in, & there's no one right way to go about it.

amother

Crocus

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 7:02 pm

amother Ballota wrote:

Or not. As long as we have to make hard choices. Sending a baby to babysitter may be one of those hard choices. We're going to be crying like another. Of course, neglecting your older children or living in poverty are other hard choices.

A person needs to be aware of the facts in order to make a proper judgment as what is the best for their family right now. You can send to a babysitter because that's the best choice right now despite the negative consequences. Or a lot of baby cry for the same token. Or choose to live without also. People can make their choices but they need the information first.

amother

DarkGray

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 7:03 pm

amother Ballota wrote:

Sometimes, baby crying for afew minutes, is just unavoidable. And that's ok, as long as it's not a regular thing that happens several times a day. But sometimes, with a busy family kh, it's just unavoidable. An older kid may need mom at the moment & not be able to wait till later.

amother

Ballota

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 7:08 pm

amother DarkGray wrote:

It should be a one off and not something to be flippant and cavalier about. The example given was to intentionally put a crying baby in the crib for the sole purpose on giving the 8 year old attention. It’s an intentional decision and it’s wrong. Hold the baby while chatting with the 8 year old or wait for a time that baby will happily go down to talk is a better choice.
This is very different then mom needing the bathroom so she is stuck and baby is crying. That isn’t intentional.

amother

Almond

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 7:11 pm

amother Pansy wrote:

Are you asking me how I prove that widespread use of daycare/babysitters starting at a young age (the reality for many many frum families) results in harmful, society wide consequences? The studies speak for themselves. Here is just one such study conducted on the entirety of Quebec. Is that a big enough sample size for you?

https://ifstudies.org/blog/mea.....-care

And just because there may be other factors in our lives that are also harmful, doesn’t make this OK.

I didn't read through the whole thing - but what do they consider full time day care? Where I live the longest time you can possibly get daycare is from 9 to 4, with many, many parents sending for less hours. I don't think yu can compare 9 to 4, or 9 to 3, daycare to 7 to 6. It's just not comparable. Which one was it?

amother

DarkGray

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 7:22 pm

amother Ballota wrote:

Whether it's wrong or not, really depends on the circumstances. It may be wrong to do under your circumstances, but the right thing to under others circumstances. Every situation and family is unique. There's no one size fits all, one right way.
And if baby crying is supposedly traumatic for baby, why does it matter for the baby if it's "intentional" or not? It doesn't matter.