Just witnessed the most horrible sight!

ExtraCredit

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:03 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

I'm sorry but I really disagree. A random member of the public does not have the expertise, experience or statutory mandate to determine whether parents are abusive, or to give parenting advice in this kind of extreme situation. I think it would be much more beneficial for everyone if child protection services get involved discreetly and try to help the parents manage their child. This way no-one in the community need know about it and the parents can preserve some dignity. Plus they can get actual professional help.

PSA- if you see me making a mistake in my chinuch please notify me first before calling CPS. If that doesn’t help please involve my family or rav. This is just my personal preference but you’re entitled to yours.

amother

Orchid

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:03 pm

crust wrote:

Well, I know too many stories where CPS was involved and it only made things worse for the children.

Me to and I totally say it should be the last step. And since no one knows anything about this story besides what a neighbor saw from her window....:

nchr

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:04 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

You wrote not allowed, you meant allowed?
I’d never take responsibility to call before discussing with a professional and/or rav. The point though is that it’s irresponsible of OP to do NOTHING because it’s clearly abusive behavior from the parents!

Thanks, I fixed it. I don't think Jewish people call CPS on other Jewish people anyways but some of the stuff I've read on this site...

amother

Green

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:06 pm

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

Since your not in the US please don’t chime in since cps here is horrible. It’s not ok to call cps without fact checkers. Without knowing anything. And a one time incident doesn’t mean there is abuse at all.

And what if it isn't a one-time incident? And child continues to be abused? How does that weigh on your conscience?

Regarding CPS being terrible: I feel like there is a lot of entrenched fear of authorities in jewish communities given what happened with Russian cantonists, nazi's etc. Just because you know of a few horror stories does not mean that A) you know the whole story B) they are true C) they are reflective of all CPS agencies.

amother

Lemon

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:07 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

1. Please don't do this. It is not helpful for neigbours to get involved in issues of child safety. If there is genuine abuse going on, then they will try to hide it more carefully next time, and the child will suffer for longer.

2. Also a bad idea, for the same reasons as above. Plus it will be more humiliating for the family if their rav knows and gets involved. This may cause them to become more secretive, and may also result in the child being punished for provoking a neighbour.

3. I am a therapist, and I say that the proper authorities should be notified and asked to do an investigation

Yes the neighbors and rav getting involved is risky. But at least you can do it in a careful non-confrontational or "holier-than-though" manner. Maybe the mother really just does need a friend to guide her.

Calling CPS can be like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Either that, or CPS may come down and do nothing, and like you said the family will just get better at hiding it.

I think anyone who has such blind trust in a govt agency is being naive. If 2020 hasnt taught us that I don't know what will.

amother

Orchid

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:08 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

Well so far it’s a one time incident so your jumping the gun.

Oh my god your a therapist but you don’t listen. Do research then talk

crust

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:08 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

I dont think it is a one time incident.

I think you didn't watch first hand stories of children that were supposedly taken care of by CPS in NY

You may be a therapist but sometimes real life teaches you a thing or two that school doesn't.

Last edited by crust on Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

ExtraCredit

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:09 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

You’re still being ridiculous for jumping to the authorities first. If speaking to the parents/family/rav doesn’t help you can warn the parents that next step would be authorities. It’s being wild to jump to CPS right away.

amother

Green

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:09 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

C'mon EC this is hardly a "mistake". This is not a light potch, or screaming too loudly once in a blue moon. I think most reasonable people are aware that all parents make mistakes and that's okay. Locking a small child outside in the middle of the night in frigid weather is not a mistake, it is abuse.

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:09 pm

nchr wrote:

Thanks, I fixed it. I don't think Jewish people call CPS on other Jewish people anyways but some of the stuff I've read on this site...

Sometimes it is warranted. I know the principal of my local BY has done so on occasion. He always gently informed the parents first. I am sure he used halachic guidance. And it was for serious situations where he felt the parents needed guidance that couldn't be provided any other way. None of these involved children being removed from their home. Mostly because of neglect rather than abuse.

ExtraCredit

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:11 pm

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

This makes so much sense. It wasn’t a wild move.

amother

Green

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:11 pm

ExtraCredit wrote:

Why is it wild? Because you don't trust them? They are the professionals that could potentially assist the mom to do better. Maybe she doesn't know better, or maybe she needs extra assistance. CPS is the first point of call in this particular type of situation.

ExtraCredit

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:12 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

Oh I call it abuse too. Still doesn’t change my opinion of how to go about it.

Last edited by ExtraCredit on Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

ExtraCredit

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:13 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

Can you reread why we feel that in NY it shouldn’t be the first step? I don’t believe in circular arguments. If you don’t get it then it’s no use repeating. We can just agree to disagree.

crust

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:15 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

Please share success stories that you had with CPS in New York that made the children's lives better.

Honest.

amother

Lemon

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:17 pm

Does anyone who is recommending CPS have any first hand experience that your basing your advice on??

(I'm the poster that previously said that CPS was called on my parents several times and nothing good ever came of it)

amother

Orchid

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:19 pm

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

Times have changed!!

yksraya

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 12:22 pm

So far this is a half the story one time incident that OP saw. She did not actually see anyone locking the child out. All she saw is that he was on porch without a coat crying. Maybe the one that turned light off, meant to turn light on thinking it's off etc. Maybe the child went out by himself and couldn't open the door and yelled to alert his parents. Maybe it's a fight between sibling and the mother came to aid and took kid back in.

We do not know the full story. For now, the right thing for OP to do is to keep her eyes open to make sure things like that don't happen again. If they do, it's time to intervene and get someone involved. I would say family or a rav/asken.