Just witnessed the most horrible sight!

amother

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 3:16 am

I just witnessed something so horrible I hope no mother ever does this to a child I am horrified! Where we live the way the houses are built is that the back of our house faces the back of the next house so our back porches face each other. Around 1:45 am tonight I heard noise outside from the back.. opening my window I witnessed a young boy probably 6 or 7 years old in his pajamas, no coat, screaming and crying on his porch shaking like a leaf from the cold, looked like he was locked out trying to get in. The porch light was on. At first looked like was some mistake or something but as he continued crying someone from inside turned off the porch light on purpose. The kid was in total darkness.I couldn't believe what I was seeing! A few seconds later seems like the mom put the light back on, opened the door a crack and asked the kid something about stopping to cry (couldn't hear exactly but something like that) I cannot get this story out of my mind. As u can see I'm still up.....I can't believe parents can treat kids like this.

amother

Blush

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 3:40 am

I was that mother.

My 9-yo pushed all of my buttons all the time, was aggressive to me and the younger kids, destructive and disturbing.

At first I hit him. And felt terrible, and stopped.

Then I tried time out, but he wouldn't stay.

I tried having him go outside. I handed him his coat, but he wouldn't put it on. I told him to come back in when he was ready to behave. He would come back in and return to the same destructive behavior. I'd escort him back outside and try again.

I worked on my own anger, which I knew was a big problem. I got it mostly under control, but it still wasn't enough.

I tried the Nurtured Heart approach, which worked somewhat. I got him a book about anger. I read the Explosive Child and started implementing some of it with me, although not directly with him.

Finally, I learned how to communicate with him. Before, he never would answer. We could never have a conversation. I couldn't find out what he was feeling or what he was thinking, no matter how much I tried. I don't know if it was maturity, or a new method (typing instead of talking) but now we can communicate through talking too.

I learned what bothers him and he learned that I am trying.

But along the way it was plenty ugly.

He is 12 now. He has lots of anger and resentment that we're still trying to work through. His behavior is sometimes still out of control. He has no compunctions against hitting me, calling me names, making threats, scaring his siblings. He will run outside without a coat in anger.

Am I an abusive parent? Maybe.

I definitely did abusive things, when I could not for the life of me figure out how to parent this child, who is not my oldest and did not respond like the others did at all. And although I was trying, I wasn't finding the answers fast enough. I didn't know who to turn to, didn't know what of the conflicting advice to implement, and didn't know how to handle my own rage.

I am a more humble parent today, and constantly trying to undo my damage.

But I was that mother.

Jewishmom8

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 3:48 am

I think you are a great mom.
you are NOT and abusive parent now and that is all that matters.
Trying to be better every day and growing is all hashem wants from us.
The bad moms don't care and would admit being wrong and change.
you are awsome

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

FranticFrummie

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 4:02 am

I have a friend who had a daughter who was extremely prone to meltdowns. She's not on the spectrum, and doesn't have ADD. Maybe she was just super sensory, but 25 years ago we really didn't know so much about these things.

This girl, when in meltdown mode, NEEDED to get it out. She would not calm down. Any attempt to soothe her made it worse. The parents are awesome, loving, nurturing people and did everything they could. This girl just needed to let things run their natural course until she was done and ready on her own to settle down.

She would scream bloody murder. It's a miracle nobody called CPS on them. When she was little she would have to go to the back yard, in order not to hit or scare her baby brothers. Eventually she would take herself outside, because she wanted to tantrum alone, without anyone telling her to quit crying. Sometimes it would take over an hour!

Her mom told me this, while I'm looking at this calm, quiet, beautiful college graduate, and I couldn't believe it. I asked the girl if this was as extreme as her mom had said, and she said it was 100% accurate. She felt like she worked through her issues, and learned to self soothe.

As far as I know, she doesn't suffer from any abandonment issues, but I don't live in her head so I can't tell you for sure. She seems completely normal and well adjusted, and has a great relationship with her parents and siblings. She was just a "difficult child" (that's what they called it back then.)

Was it the right way to handle it? Who knows. I might have done the same if I were the parent, or maybe not. I'm not going to judge though. Nobody knows what they would do until they are faced with a challenging child of their own. It's just like you swear you are never going to potch your kid - until you do.

I thought I was the best parent in the world, until I had a child of my own!

amother

Blush

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 4:16 am

Perhaps this should be a spinoff, but the question of CPS should probably be brought up here. Not calling them could put a child in danger. How could we stand by and judge the parent favorably?

But OTOH, had someone called CPS on me, it would have destroyed me.

The struggle I was already going through, feeling like a failure with this child, compounded with the humiliation of a CPS call, possibly losing my children, would have left me with a terrible deep resentment to the child who caused it that I don't know if I could have recovered from. Even thinking about it makes me shudder.

So what is the right thing to do? I honestly don't know.

Had a neighbor kindly expressed that some children are hard to parent and offered me a book or guide, I would have been embarrassed, but I don't think it would make me fall apart, and might have pushed me to do something about it sooner.

But in some cases you could be saving a child's life by reporting their parents, because an abusive parent can simply get better at hiding the abuse.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 4:27 am

The thing is, you don't know the whole picture.

I think that locking a terrified child out on the porch is cruel and traumatizing. We can pretty much all agree on that. Still, a few minutes is hardly life threatening.

What if the punished child had been severely hitting and harming a younger sibling, and the mother was alone, and needed to protect the younger child? Getting the little one to safety, carrying up to the crib, or whatever - and needing the violent one to stay away for a few minutes to get a grip and think about not hitting?

As we know, some kids will NOT do time out, and will instead go into the kitchen, grab a knife, or start breaking all the dishes.

Sending a kid outside is a last ditch effort. Doing it as a routine punishment is very wrong, and should be addressed somehow, but a one time event is just a poor mom who is at her breaking point and doesn't know what else to do.

Maybe get her a copy of "The Explosive Child", and write a note that you saw her son outside on the porch. Leave the book on her doorstep anonymously, so she won't know who saw and she won't be totally embarrassed. That alone may be the wakeup call she needs.

ora_43

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 4:41 am

I'm shocked by some of the posts here, and wondering if maybe the posters skimmed and missed some very important details.

This was in the middle of the night. In December. The kid had no coat. I live in a very warm climate, and yet leaving a kid outside without a coat in the middle of the night would be dangerous even here. The kid was screaming and crying, and at that point, when the child was hysterical and freezing, someone inside turned off the light just to make the punishment that much worse.

What OP is describing is nothing like putting a misbehaving 12-year-old outside until they calm down. Nothing. It is blatantly dangerous, and blatantly abusive.

amother

Firebrick

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 4:55 am

ora_43 wrote:

I live in the same warm climate and nights are chilly, but not dangerously cold.

I do think this crosses a line and is cruel, but I don't think it is dangerous, unless you're talking about kidnapping or wild animals.

ora_43

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 5:17 am

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

If someone is shaking like a leaf from the cold, they are dangerously cold.

It's not just about climate, it's a mix of climate and personal physiology. What's dangerous for you is probably not what's dangerous for me. Point is, it gets cold enough at night that it can't just be assumed that it's safe.

ora_43

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 5:27 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Sending a kid outside is a last ditch effort. Doing it as a routine punishment is very wrong, and should be addressed somehow, but a one time event is just a poor mom who is at her breaking point and doesn't know what else to do.

For one thing, don't make this kind of excuse for the mom before hearing from OP what the weather was like where she lives. If she lives in the northern part of the US, what she saw was severe physical abuse, period.

For another - all of what you're saying could maybe explain the child being outside (again: in the middle of the night...). It doesn't explain why the kid would have no coat, or why the mother would turn off the light. There is no set of circumstances that makes either of those things anything other than premeditated cruelty. Literally, even if the kid just strangled the family pet and then threatened his mother with a knife, it would make zero sense for the mother to turn off the light when the child was already clearly scared, suffering, and desperate to come in.

I think we need to look past the 0.5% chance that the mother had some kind of almost-reasonable excuse for some of what she did, and focus on the 100% chance that this was terrible parenting.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Dec 13 2020, 5:42 am

ora_43 wrote:

focus on the 100% chance that this was terrible parenting.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that point. I think that no coat and especially no light is exceptionally cruel. Especially if the kid is afraid of the dark! I said upthread that I thought it was cruel and traumatizing.

There is a difference between having a reason for doing something, and having a good excuse for doing something. The mom probably thought she had a reason to put him out, but there's no excuse for the cruelty of it.

Does that make it actionable and justify calling the police? That's the harder call to make. That's why I suggest putting a good book and a note on her doorstep. Hopefully she'll read the book, and find better ways to cope with her lack of parenting skill.

Of course if it happens again, I would call the authorities, but I think the mom should have fair warning to improve herself first.

Why should someone spend good money on a book for a person who's a bad parent? 1. Do it for the sake of the child. 2. Do it for the sake of any other kids she has, or may have in the future. 3. Do it so that you can know that you did something to help. 4. Do it because it's a HUGE MITZVAH.

OP, if you want, I will send you the money to buy "The Explosive Child", so you can put it on her doorstep. I mean it!